1 BEFORE THE CALIFORNIA STATE BOARD OF EQUALIZATION 2 450 N STREET 3 SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 4 5 6 REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT 7 FEBRUARY 26, 2019 8 9 10 11 ITEM K1 12 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR'S REPORT 13 ITEM K1.1 14 ORGANIZATIONAL UPDATE 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 REPORTED BY: Jillian M. Sumner 28 CSR NO. 13619 1 1 P R E S E N T 2 3 For the Board of Honorable Malia S. Cohen Equalization: Chair 4 Honorable Antonio Vazquez 5 Vice Chair 6 Honorable Ted Gaines First District 7 Honorable Mike Schaefer 8 Fourth District 9 Yvette Stowers Appearing for Betty T. 10 Yee, State Controller (per Government Code 11 Section 7.9) 12 For the Board of Henry Nanjo 13 Equalization Staff: Chief Counsel 14 Brenda Fleming Chief Deputy Director 15 Toya Davis 16 Board Proceedings Division 17 18 ---oOo--- 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 2 1 450 N STREET 2 SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 3 FEBRUARY 26, 2019 4 ---oOo--- 5 MS. DAVIS: Our next item in the 6 administrative session is Item K1, the Executive 7 Director's Report. There are three items in K1, and 8 the first item is the Organizational Update. 9 Ms. Fleming. 10 MS. FLEMING: Good morning, Chairwoman Cohen 11 and Honorable Members of the Board. I'm Brenda 12 Fleming, the Executive Director. 13 Members, happy rain day. This month's 14 report highlights three items I'd like to bring to 15 your attention: workforce capacity, risks and 16 recruitment and retention issues; significant 17 challenges related to limitations on our ability to 18 directly perform some state administrative 19 functions -- he's making me smile -- office 20 relocation update. 21 Members, our property tax programs are 22 organized into two main areas: county-assessed 23 properties and state-assessed properties programs, 24 consisting of about 120 staff. 25 These professional staff are the state's 26 experts in property tax administration and 27 management. Combined, the number of years of 28 expertise and county-assessed property is 3 1 approximately more than 100 years of combined expert 2 over the years. And that's fundamentally spread just 3 amongst the management and supervisorial teams. 4 The number of years members of expertise in 5 the state-assessed area is approximately 90 years, 6 again, spread amongst just the supervisors and 7 managers. So that's a wealth of information and 8 expertise. 9 The scope of these duties is broad, but 10 primarily consist of performing the oversight 11 functions by auditing and evaluating county 12 assessment practices for compliance with state laws 13 and promoting uniformity through providing technical 14 guidance and assessing and appraising state-assessed 15 properties. 16 Members, we cannot fail at protecting the 17 knowledge and the expertise of these tax experts. 18 They are among the state's most valuable resources. 19 That said, our ability to recruit and retain 20 staff is getting increasingly more difficult. Some 21 of the issues triggering our concerns include 22 promotional and career development opportunities in 23 the industry, and our lack of competitive salaries. 24 In many cases, Members, our state salaries fall below 25 the counties and the private industry salary levels. 26 Note, Members, these risk and issues are 27 definitely not unique to BOE. Other state agencies 28 and local governments also experience similar 4 1 challenges. 2 Let me just share an example, if I may. 3 Over the past two decades, salaries of comparable 4 appraisers and auditors and auditor/appraisers at the 5 county assessor's offices have surpassed those of the 6 BOE. To address this reality, we hire less 7 experienced staff, invest in their training to 8 develop them into journey level, and frequently lose 9 them, then, to the counties. 10 The scenario is more significant even more 11 so at the supervisorial and manager level. 12 Members, as you're learning, as you're new 13 to the Board, due to the degree of complexity of 14 property tax laws, rules and regulations, it takes 15 many years to develop the property tax expertise that 16 the state, local governments and industry rely on. 17 The BOE, now largely tasked with property 18 tax functions, is small for a state agency, but its 19 complexity and its value to the states and the local 20 government's budgets and economy are anything but 21 small. 22 Members, state personnel processes used to 23 study and remedy these types of workforce issues as 24 stated earlier. They do exist, and they do occur. 25 However, they can take years to complete. 26 We will continue, Members, to work with the 27 appropriate state agencies on the course of action to 28 try to remedy these challenges. This is, just for 5 1 note, one of our top priorities. It's important to 2 the Board; it's important to the state; and equally 3 important -- it's important to our employees. 4 As a side note, of course we do use existing 5 succession plans. And those plans, of course, are 6 used to partner subject matter experts with the new 7 and the journey level staff. 8 BOE succession plans are continually updated 9 to maintain alignment with those subject matter 10 experts, because they come and go also. And years of 11 experience, you can understand, at some point, many 12 of them are retiring. 13 In recent times, more frequent adjustments 14 to our succession plans have been made due to AB-102 15 restructure. And let me just offer just a note 16 there. 17 In our Board Proceedings area, and you see 18 these fine professional individuals that are doing 19 this work, originally we had probably -- 20 MS. DAVIS: Thirty-seven. 21 MS. FLEMING: I was going to say about 30 22 staff in that area. When AB-102 took effect, 23 two-thirds of those staff were redistributed to the 24 other agencies, going to Office of Tax Appeals or to 25 CDTFA. So we were left with one-third of that staff. 26 What's significant is the number of people 27 that were moved to those other agencies. Most of 28 them had -- were those individuals identified for the 6 1 succession plan. So when we had this legislation 2 that shifts, all those plans have to be revisited. 3 So just a note. 4 Members, on this specific item, this is more 5 informational for you only. And we'll have 6 definitely more conversation over the next few months 7 and years. 8 I just want to raise this to the attention 9 today of the Board. Because we've got to find a way 10 to address the concerns that we're having with the 11 staffing issues, the salary issues, the 12 classification issues. And, again, I'll provide more 13 detail. 14 So there's no specific action needed at this 15 time. Just informational only to make sure that 16 you're aware. And more detail will come. 17 Second item, Members, as touched on in last 18 month's report, the BOE receives administrative 19 services from the CDTFA. These administrative 20 services include: HR personnel and labor relations 21 services; budget and accounting contracts and 22 procurement; facilities and fleet management, 23 printing and mail services; forms, publications, 24 information technology, which includes their web 25 services, etc., desktops, etc. 26 We appreciate -- we greatly appreciate -- 27 and I can't say this enough -- we definitely 28 appreciate what CDTFA does as our service provider. 7 1 Especially all the people that assist us on a daily 2 basis. They do, in many cases, go out of their way 3 to help us. 4 However, the arrangement includes 5 constraints and limitations, along with time frames 6 that definitely impede our ability to directly and 7 timely perform administrative functions for ourselves 8 and our offices. 9 The current arrangement precludes us from 10 using our own state and staff resources to set the 11 priorities. As long as you're depending on someone 12 else to use their system and resources, it impedes 13 our ability. 14 As would be expected, transactions that 15 occur across multiple departments and work units are 16 inherently impacted by that unit's priorities and 17 available staff resources. 18 Additionally, the information and material 19 used in the transactions is frequently interpreted 20 differently from unit to unit. Resulting in severely 21 inefficient processes. 22 Here are a couple of examples: 23 The average duration for recruitments and 24 hires is measured, Members, in months instead of 25 weeks. Obviously delays in filling vacancies has a 26 domino effect. Because as long as the vacancies are 27 there, and we're not filling them, then other staff 28 are absorbing the work. Therefore, those staff are 8 1 not able to focus on their priorities. And in some 2 cases, some of them may be working outside of their 3 duty statements. 4 It just takes longer for everything to get 5 done. And I think you're being impacted by some of 6 that. 7 For example, a typical time line for hiring 8 a property tax appraiser or auditor is anywhere from 9 three to six months. The time line for hiring a EEO 10 officer, which is a mandated position for all state 11 agencies, is six months. So much so that some of the 12 other candidates move on and take other 13 opportunities. So many other examples, just to site 14 a few. 15 Certainly, Members, some of the limitations 16 and delays are a result of a loss of delegation for 17 HR. We acknowledge that. Among our top priorities 18 is to identify the remedies to regain our personnel 19 and HR delegation that were -- that would bring some 20 relief to these current conditions. 21 Members, the next category is contracts and 22 procurement. The County-Assessed Properties Division 23 require a statistical software package to perform its 24 audit functions of its assessment practices program. 25 The lengthy delays in the procurement process caused 26 significant issues with staffs ability to schedule 27 and finalize audits. 28 Additionally, per the legislation, the BOE 9 1 Executive Office is required to process all the 2 contracts and procurements for Board Members through 3 the Department of General Services. 4 This is new and additional work for the 5 Executive Office. Previously, we had a whole 6 Department that handled a lot of this work for us. 7 Executive Office is absorbing that work; 8 however, again, the dedicated staff need to be 9 allocated to this work. Unfortunately, their 10 recruitment to hire these dedicated staff is one of 11 the many items that's cued up in the HR process. 12 Again, we are relying on others to perform basic 13 government functions. 14 Path forward. We want to move forward, and 15 I think there's recent discussions to help us move 16 forward to restore the Board of Equalization, its 17 administrative function, so we can function like a 18 normal government agency. The constraints has 19 kept -- presented significant restrictions and 20 limitations. 21 Just for reference, out of the 140-plus 22 departments with delegated authority through June of 23 2019 -- and this is based upon information on the 24 CalHR Web site -- BOE is listed as the only 25 department without delegated authority. 26 Further, a loss of delegation has been noted 27 as permanent. Typically, delegations are suspended 28 for a specified time, a year, with the opportunity to 10 1 correct the violations to regain all or some of our 2 delegated functions. 3 Members, it's been almost two years of these 4 restrictions and restraints. And as time passes, the 5 levels of inefficiency in our state-administrative 6 duties is being compounded. Almost every 7 administrative function requires our reliance on 8 another state entity and requires continual pre -- 9 reprioritization of work. 10 Employees are absorbing workload previously 11 performed by BOE work units with staff resources 12 dedicated to these functions. 13 The opportunity to regain our capacity to 14 perform some essential administrative functions would 15 enable our ability to perform basic -- again, yet 16 essential, government functions internally, and 17 eliminate the inefficiencies of getting these 18 functions from an external service provider. 19 In the interim, work is progressing, albeit, 20 slowly and inefficiently, due to our constrained 21 capacity. We continue to work towards regaining our 22 delegation and working with CalHR and CDTFA to convey 23 our priorities and the need to prioritize and 24 expedite work. 25 Members, that concludes this portion of my 26 report. 27 MS. COHEN: I appreciate that very 28 thoughtful report and analysis of the current state 11 1 of the agency. Your -- your words weigh heavy on 2 me. 3 MS. FLEMING: Ditto. 4 MS. COHEN: I'll see if my colleagues have 5 any initial reactions. 6 Mr. Schaefer. 7 MR. SCHAEFER: Well, I'm very impressed at 8 Ms. Fleming's dedication and grasp of what she's 9 presenting to us. I -- I don't have any specific 10 comments on it. But I think we all are the richer 11 from having our seat. 12 MR. GAINES: Yeah, I'd like to -- if I just 13 could comment. 14 Thank you for your ongoing efforts and 15 taking the challenges head-on. And hopefully we're 16 going to see improvement over time in terms of some 17 of the big issues that we have in terms of personnel 18 dealing with HR administrative issues, and others 19 that we'll talk about later. 20 But thank you for all of your efforts and 21 getting a handle on it. I appreciate it. 22 MS. FLEMING: Thank you. I appreciate it. 23 MS. COHEN: Yeah, I want to echo those words 24 of gratitude to you and to -- specifically to Laura. 25 And the rest of the members of the team that I don't 26 have the opportunity to interact with on a regular 27 basis. 28 So you've -- what you have done is you've 12 1 outlined where the heaviness is. I'm curious to know 2 how we, as a Board, can help empower you or help 3 guide you to relieving some of the -- some of the 4 pressure. 5 MS. FLEMING: Mm-hm. Well, first of all, 6 Members, thank you for your kindness and your kind 7 thoughts. That's greatly appreciated. And on behalf 8 of the staff, we appreciate the support. 9 There's a lot, you know -- as the message 10 indicated, there's a lot in that -- in that bucket of 11 information. And so there's -- there's -- complexity 12 comes with all that that comes with it. 13 The Reader's Digest version, we are, as 14 staff, very dedicated in doing all we can. And we 15 work across agencies with my counterparts, with 16 Mr. Maduros, with Ms. Jenkins-Jones, you know, etc., 17 the heads of the other agencies. 18 Where your help is most significant for us 19 is doing what you do as electeds, and to shake hands 20 with your peers and your counterparts, those who are 21 also equally elected at state -- as, you know, 22 constitutional electeds. And there are a number of 23 them in the state and with the Legislature. 24 Because a lot of these things are going to 25 need relief from that level down. So it's more of 26 that top down. There's this going on on a regular 27 basis. But that top down leadership that you all 28 bring as a new Board with your knowledge, with your 13 1 expertise, with your zeal and excitement to show up 2 to do the right thing, to the extent that you're able 3 to work from the top down for us. So we're working 4 this way. That measured and concentrated and uniform 5 focus on addressing these issues is going to be 6 significant for us. 7 As staff, and even as, you know, Executive 8 Director for the agency, we certainly can support 9 conversations with the Legislature, with the 10 Governor's Office, with the heads of the, you know, 11 of the other control agencies and constitutional 12 offices. 13 But, again, you working with your peers 14 similar to the way that we're working with our peers, 15 just goes along way. It helps tremendously. 16 So as you continue to, you know, do your 17 meet and greets and sit down and have policy 18 discussions, etc., with the Legislature is huge. 19 Because we definitely have history. 20 And as you all know, I'm a person who owns 21 whatever, you know -- whatever deeds and 22 transgressions that occurred before, we should own 23 that. But at the same time, as a new Board, we 24 should have the opportunity to say that there's a new 25 Board. There's a lot of things that changed in 26 AB-102. So those checks and balances exist. Now 27 just give us an opportunity, going forward, to start 28 with maybe a fresh slate knowing that we've got these 14 1 new members, and really giving you guys an 2 opportunity to sit down with the Legislature -- and 3 this came through legislation -- to sit down and have 4 those conversations with the Legislative body to see 5 what kind of remedies can be addressed. 6 MS. COHEN: So what exactly is your time 7 line to go after securing delegation authority? 8 MS. FLEMING: Definitely it is -- we're 9 starting some of that now. We've had, just within 10 this month -- I'm just going to be candid, Ms. Cohen. 11 The challenges that we've experience this month with 12 four new members has been delightful in a lot of 13 ways. It's fun to say, "Okay. So now we've got four 14 Members to juggle." They're nodding. 15 But at the same time, it exaggerates and 16 really highlights the restricted capacity. Because 17 normally we bring on new Members, and you'd have a 18 whole department to help. 19 So time line-wise, what we'd like to focus 20 on is addressing some near-term items, which is when 21 we're having conversations, as today, in fact. We've 22 had some this morning. So there will be some in the 23 near term. Which is in -- let's see what we can do 24 in the first 90 to 100 days. See if we can turn some 25 things around in three to four months. 26 MS. COHEN: So 90 and 100 days starting from 27 January 7th, I assume. Not starting today? 28 MS. FLEMING: Well, for us, some of these 15 1 remedies have started even a year ago with some of 2 the foundations that were, you know, laid down in 3 discussions at last year's hearing. 4 But, again, I think we didn't get the 5 traction that we had hoped for over the last year. 6 So I'm hoping as of this January with, you know -- 7 with the introductions that have been occurring at 8 your level, that we have some fresh opportunities. 9 So -- 10 MS. COHEN: Do you need a directive? Do we 11 need -- 12 MS. FLEMING: I don't think so. I think, if 13 anything, Ms. Cohen, Madam Chair, if -- just knowing 14 that we have your support and being on the record 15 that the -- that we are supported by the Board to 16 move forward with these. 17 So a directive certainly would be in order 18 if you want to direct us to proceed with that. 19 MS. COHEN: Mm-hm. 20 MS. FLEMING: But I think just the 21 indication of having your full support of the Board 22 gives us the authority in this office that you've 23 delegated to me to move those things forward. 24 MS. COHEN: I certainly would like to see 25 you move with urgency -- 26 MS. FLEMING: Absolutely. 27 MS. COHEN: -- to restore the delegation 28 authority. You briefly touched on -- and I just 16 1 really want to highlight and underscore and put a 2 finer point to the challenges of hiring and 3 recruiting staff. 4 We've been in -- this is our second Board 5 Meeting, and I still, to this date, have two staff 6 persons on staff. It's been incredibly frustrating, 7 and quite honestly, difficult for me to do my job as 8 we are taking calls from taxpayers. 9 Those calls don't cease. They don't care 10 whether they're calling CDTFA or the BOE. They still 11 have the expectation of getting their questions and 12 their paperwork answered. 13 Not to mention -- not to mention the threats 14 that I now have received in terms of my own personal 15 security. 16 MS. FLEMING: Mm-hm. 17 MS. COHEN: Something that I did not 18 necessarily anticipate so early on in my -- in my 19 tenure on the Board of Equalization. But security 20 certainly for me and my family is at the forefront of 21 my mind in this day and age. 22 There are many people that are unstable that 23 have -- I've certainly brought it to your 24 attention -- that have made threats against me. 25 MS. FLEMING: Yes, ma'am. 26 MS. COHEN: So we are working through this. 27 But that's just another example of the importance of 28 being able to hire, being able to vet, being able to 17 1 be fully at staff capacity, to execute on what our 2 constitutional functions are. 3 It's kind of an interesting and precarious 4 state. People say, "You don't have enough work," or, 5 "Justify your existence," and then -- but then they 6 tie our hands on being able to do our work in giving 7 us the tools to do the job. 8 So it's an unfair double standard that I am 9 frustrated with and trying to work through. 10 I want to be very clear in providing 11 direction for you. I want you to go after that 12 procurement delegation immediately when it comes -- 13 or delegation authority -- excuse me -- when it comes 14 to fulfilling the roles. 15 If I'm not mistaken, you've got 46 16 vacancies, 20 of which that have been in the 17 pipeline, for the longest going back to six months. 18 That's ridiculous. That's ridiculous. 19 And I think we, as a state agency and just 20 state government, period, need to get very serious 21 and focused and recommit to our service in 22 remembering who we serve. We're not here for 23 ourselves. We're not here for our pleasure. But we 24 are here for the members of the state of California. 25 You know, I'm thinking and I'm watching 26 things unfold with the Department of Motor Vehicles. 27 And watching on the outside level of what the strike 28 team is doing. But you can't help but wonder, how 18 1 did we get here? What changes are we doing to change 2 the behavior? 3 The Legislature went through great lengths 4 to change a lot of the culture of the State Board of 5 Equalization. And it makes me wonder if the bad 6 behavior is now manifesting, but in a different area. 7 Perhaps it's in CDTFA. 8 People are texting me on Twitter -- excuse 9 me. They're sending me tweets complaining about 10 CDTFA and want me to do something about it. But, 11 yet, I have two staff persons, and largely rely on 12 you to interface on our behalf to Mr. Maduros. 13 So, again, let me just wrap this all in 14 line. I need a time line, and I need a plan from 15 you. I want to know like in March when you come 16 back, I want you to say, "We've submitted a letter 17 requesting that our delegation authority be 18 restored." And begin to move with urgency and set 19 with some tangible time lines so we can continue to 20 move forward collectively. Collectively. 21 The other portion we haven't gotten to the 22 presentation yet, but DGS and the office building. 23 MS. FLEMING: Mm-hm. 24 MS. COHEN: That is certainly an element 25 that is concerning. It's so interesting how 26 disjointed things are kind of moving. Things are 27 moving so quickly on one portion, and then so slow on 28 another -- on another front. 19 1 So let's see if we can begin to reverse 2 that. Let's see if we can pump the brakes a little 3 bit on the move to Natomas. 4 MS. FLEMING: Mm-hm. 5 MS. COHEN: And then also just so we can 6 assess what's going on so this Board has the ability 7 to weigh in on the future and provide the direction 8 and guidance to the agency, that of which we are 9 charged to do. 10 And I don't want to get ahead of myself. I 11 want to make sure that I'm in lock step with my 12 colleagues here, as well as you and -- and the 13 members of the staff. So that this is a collective 14 and a team effort as we go forward. 15 Supervisor -- supervisor. 16 Senator Gaines. 17 MR. GAINES: Yes, if I could -- 18 MS. COHEN: Do you have any remarks? 19 MR. GAINES: Yeah. I just want to echo 20 those comments. 21 And we're grateful to have you in the 22 position that you're in, because you are moving 23 forward. And you've got a vision in terms of how to 24 get there. 25 And I like the idea of the Board being 26 engaged and knowing what the challenges are, and how 27 we can work together as a team to resolve those. So 28 I do like the idea of a time line. 20 1 MS. COHEN: Mm-hm. 2 MR. GAINES: And moving forward. And we're 3 side by side with you. 4 MS. FLEMING: Thank you. 5 MR. GAINES: And if there's something we can 6 do to help you, let's stay in communication, and 7 we'll work together as a team. 8 MS. FLEMING: Thank you. Your support is 9 greatly appreciated. And on behalf of the staff who 10 do incredible work, we thank you for that support. 11 MS. STOWERS: Madam Chair. 12 MS. COHEN: Yes. 13 MS. STOWERS: I, too, would like to weigh in 14 on this. 15 Thank you, Ms. Fleming. You are taking a 16 very active role in the operation of the organization 17 and working with the Members since I've been here. 18 For a while, I must say -- I was here when 19 AB-102 was enacted -- and the leadership was minimum 20 at that time. And I understand why. 21 So you are, you know -- you're moving 22 forward. Great job. 23 I do support a time line for BOE receiving 24 their CalHR delegations back. Because there are 25 limitations. 26 I understand that CDTFA did receive theirs 27 back in December of this year. But this organization 28 did not. 21 1 MS. FLEMING: That's correct. 2 MS. STOWERS: So that should be No. 1. 3 And in your earlier presentation you talked 4 about your program staff, your appraisers, your 5 auditors, and losing them to other, I guess, private 6 work or county assessors. And that is a problem for 7 all state government workers, you know. 8 They often, auditors and attorneys, think 9 the grass is greener on the other side. Because 10 they're offered additional pay. 11 MS. FLEMING: Mm-hm. 12 MS. STOWERS: And tend to go over there. 13 And some of us -- we come back. I'm one of those. 14 So I think it would be very important for 15 that to be a No. 2 item is how can you get their pay 16 more competitive. I realize it is state government, 17 so there are some restrictions. But from my 18 understanding, your auditors', your 19 auditor/appraisers' pay may not -- the pay may be 20 equivalent, but the opportunity to promote is 21 limited. And from my understanding, some of that is 22 because of the classifications that we were using 23 were not property tax classifications. 24 MS. FLEMING: Correct. 25 MS. STOWERS: And that needs to be 26 corrected, so that you have the right 27 classifications. So you can fill the vacancies based 28 on their experience and expertise. 22 1 MS. FLEMING: Correct. Thank you for that 2 support. 3 MS. COHEN: So I also understand -- because 4 I'm new to state systems -- CDTFA had their HR 5 delegation restored in December? 6 MS. FLEMING: November. 7 MS. COHEN: Was it November? Okay. Late 8 last year. 9 And now one of the criticisms that I heard 10 in terms of feedback was that we didn't have an 11 Executive Director in place. We voted on placing you 12 the head of the agency in January. We've approved 13 the resolution again today. 14 MS. FLEMING: Thank you. 15 MS. COHEN: And so that there is leadership 16 that's in place. 17 So I would implore you with the urgency -- 18 MS. FLEMING: Mm-hm. 19 MS. COHEN: -- to begin to draft the letter, 20 and begin to draft the process to make the argument. 21 To actively seek the return of the -- 22 MS. FLEMING: Delegation. 23 MS. COHEN: -- of the full delegation. 24 Thank you. 25 MS. FLEMING: Members, thank you. 26 MS. COHEN: Just one thing. I just want to 27 recognize Member Schaefer. 28 MR. SCHAEFER: We've been serving the public 23 1 for well over 100 years, but we are not our father's 2 BOE. And we are a new world. I sense that you are a 3 little more creative and proactive in your work. And 4 I like that. 5 I'd like Mr. Nanjo to also be a little 6 creative and proactive in taking a look at 2019, and 7 realizing it's not, you know, 2009. 8 And we can address some issues that we may 9 have been silent on, and we can speak out as to some 10 of the things people think we're involved in that are 11 really none of our business. 12 We might even have our PR people encourage 13 media. And especially our Chairman's constituency to 14 discuss the BOE of 2019, and how we are a lesser size 15 and more effective. I think that's more important, 16 because the public out there doesn't know, doesn't 17 care, unless we tell them. 18 Thank you. 19 MS. FLEMING: I agree. 20 Thank you, Mr. Schaefer. 21 MS. COHEN: Thank you very much. 22 ---o0o--- 23 24 25 26 27 28 24 1 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE 2 3 State of California ) 4 ) ss 5 County of Sacramento ) 6 7 I, Jillian Sumner, Hearing Reporter for 8 the California State Board of Equalization, certify 9 that on February 26, 2019 I recorded verbatim, in 10 shorthand, to the best of my ability, the 11 proceedings in the above-entitled hearing; that I 12 transcribed the shorthand writing into typewriting; 13 and that the preceding pages 1 through 24 14 constitute a complete and accurate transcription of 15 the shorthand writing. 16 17 Dated: March 15, 2019 18 19 20 ____________________________ 21 JILLIAN SUMNER, CSR #13619 22 Hearing Reporter 23 24 25 26 27 28 25