1 BEFORE THE CALIFORNIA STATE BOARD OF EQUALIZATION 2 5901 GREEN VALLEY CIRCLE 3 CULVER CITY, CALIFORNIA 4 5 6 7 8 REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT 9 JULY 17, 2013 10 11 12 13 ITEM F 14 PUBLIC HEARINGS 15 F2 PROPERTY TAXPAYERS' BILL OF RIGHTS HEARING 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 REPORTED BY: Kathleen Skidgel 26 CSR NO. 9039 27 28 1 1 P R E S E N T 2 For the Board Jerome E. Horton of Equalization: Chairman 3 Michelle Steel 4 Vice-Chairwoman 5 Betty T. Yee Member 6 George Runner 7 Member 8 Marcy Jo Mandel Appearing for John 9 Chiang, State Controller (per Government Code 10 Section 7.9) 11 Joann Richmond Chief, Board Proceedings 12 Division 13 For Board of Equalization Staff: Todd Gilman 14 Taxpayer Rights Advocate, Taxpayers' Rights 15 Advocates Office 16 Christina Scuipac Property Owner's Advocate 17 Los Angeles County Assessor's Office 18 David Gau 19 Deputy Director, Property and Special 20 Taxes Department 21 Randy Ferris Chief Counsel, 22 Legal Department 23 24 ---oOo--- 25 26 27 28 2 1 INDEX OF SPEAKERS 2 SPEAKER PAGE 3 Lan Thi Hoang 2 4 Mirna Miramontes 12 5 Orie Vaughn 15 6 William Morschauser 16 7 ---oOo--- 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 3 1 5901 GREEN VALLEY CIRCLE 2 CULVER CITY, CALIFORNIA 3 JULY 17, 2013 4 ---oOo--- 5 MR. GILMAN: So we'll move on to the 6 property tax portion of the Taxpayer Bill of Rights 7 Hearing. 8 MR. HORTON: Please do. 9 MR. GILMAN: I believe we have one speaker, 10 Ms. Lin Hoang. If Ms. Lan Hoang -- pardon me -- is 11 in the audience, if she would please come forward. 12 MR. HORTON: I don't have a notice of that, 13 but -- please. 14 MR. GILMAN: Oh, sorry. Did -- 15 MR. HORTON: That's okay. I'm -- I 16 consider myself notified. 17 Please have a seat. 18 Please introduce yourself, ma'am, for the 19 record. And, uh, then commence your, uh, 20 testimony. 21 ---oOo--- 22 LAN THI HOANG 23 ---oOo--- 24 MS. HOANG: Thank you. My name, uh -- 25 MR. HORTON: Could you turn the mike or 26 pull the mike towards you? 27 Thank you. 28 MS. HOANG: My name is Lan Thi Hoang, and 4 1 my address is, um, 18319 -- 2 MR. HORTON: Ma'am, unless you want to 3 disclose that, that's not required that you disclose 4 that. 5 MS. HOANG: Oh, okay. That's okay. 6 MR. HORTON: Okay. 7 MS. HOANG: I living in the Redondo Beach, 8 California. 9 MR. HORTON: There you go. 10 MS. HOANG: Yeah, thank you. 11 So, um, I know today is -- I have a chance 12 for me to speak up regarding about tax concern. And 13 I have a some issue, and -- and, um, I prepare some 14 document. I hope after I submit up in here, this 15 document will be submitted to the Board so the Board 16 can have the document to review. Because sometime I 17 cannot speak on and on like this. Okay. 18 MR. HORTON: Thank you. 19 MS. HOANG: My issue is -- I have a two 20 issue. The first issue is whether the law 21 enforcement agencies of the state should have a 22 responsibility to enforce the licensing law of the 23 state. 24 The second issue is whether Bridge View 25 Apartments, LLC; the second is New Star Inn, LLC; 26 the third is Jim Poma; and the fourth is Lakana 27 Rungrueng; and five is Carmen Torres and their 28 attorneys/agents Susan Freedman, and William 5 1 Steckbaure, and Hilda Weintraub should be prosecute 2 as a criminal misdemeanor under Business and 3 Professional Code Section 125 and 145, due to they 4 have been theft our rental income of Victory King 1 5 and Victory King 2 since 2009 to present, after 6 ownership have changed. 7 So that's the two issues. And I want the 8 Board pay attention and consider two Business and 9 Professions. And I -- I cite this in here. The 10 first is 125. It say: 11 Any person, licensed under Division 1 12 (commencing with Section 100), Division 2 13 (commencing with Section 500), or Division 3 14 (commencing with section 5000), is guilty of 15 misdemeanor and subject to be -- to the discipline 16 provisions of this code applicable to him or her, 17 and who conspires with the person not so licensed to 18 violation any provision of this code, or who, with 19 intent to aid or assist that person in violating the 20 provision, does either of the following: 21 Allow he or her license to be used by that 22 person. 23 "B" is, acts as his or her agent or 24 partner. 25 The section 145 say: 26 The Legislature finds and declares that: 27 Unlicensed activity in the professions and vocation 28 regulated by Department of Consumer Affair is a 6 1 threat to the health and welfare and safety of 2 people of the State of California. 3 "B" is, the law enforcement agency of the 4 state should be sufficient, effective, and 5 responsible means available to enforce the licensing 6 law of state. 7 "C" is, the criminal sanction for 8 unlicensed activity should be swift, effective, 9 appropriate, and create a strong incentive to obtain 10 license. 11 So in here, and I say the evidence for the 12 criminal doing business licenses or I -- I add it, 13 the evidence in here. So I just list the name. 14 The letter from attorney Joseph Aliberti on 15 June 27, '13, conclusion: This is criminal matter. 16 And the second is a confirmation letter: 17 Bridge View Apartments, LLC doing business none 18 licensed. 19 The third is confirmation letter: New 20 Star, LLC, doing business, none licensed. 21 The fourth is a confirmation letter: Jim 22 Poma, doing business, none licensed. 23 The evidence of Victory King 1, Victory 24 King 2 have business licenses: 25 City Los Angeles business license issued to 26 Lan Thi Hoang and Victor Anthony Williams at the 27 location 401 West 3rd Street, San Pedro, California, 28 90731. 7 1 The second is a City Los Angeles business 2 license issued for Lan Thi Hoang and Victor Anthony 3 William, 354 West 9th Street, San Pedro, California 4 90731. 5 And then three, City Los Angeles business 6 license issued for Lan Thi Hoang and Victor Anthony 7 Williams at 571 West 12th Street, San Pedro, 8 California 90731. 9 Number four, Police Commission Permit of 10 Los Angeles City issued to Victory King 1 and 11 Victory King 2. 12 Num- -- number five, business account 13 issued by City Gardena for Lan Thi Hoang and Victor 14 Anthony Williams at the address 135 -- 1327 West 15 146th Street, Gardena, California 90247. 16 Six, business account issued by City 17 Gardena for Lan Thi Hoang and Victor Anthony 18 Williams, address at 15125 South Normandi Avenue, 19 Gardena, California 92 -- 90247. 20 Seven, Statement of Partnership 21 Authorization to partner named Lan Thi Hoang and 22 Victor Anthony Williams executed instruments 23 transferring real property in five forms GP-1. 24 Eight, tax payment -- taxpayer's payment 25 receipt from City Los Angeles for fire permit -- um, 26 for fire permit of the address 354 West 9th Street. 27 And number nine, taxpayer's permit -- 28 taxpayer's receipt from City Los Angeles for fire 8 1 permit at the location 401 West 3rd Street. 2 I unable to resolve these matters in 2009 3 to present about criminal tax evasion and fraud 4 matter. I hereby formally request the Board of 5 Equalization to consider this matter, and I am 6 seeking for confirmation that City, County, State 7 comply with Business Professional Code Section 125, 8 145. I certify that I submit this request to 9 above -- with above evidence mentioned to the Board 10 of Equalization on hearing on June 17, 2013. Please 11 reply for my request as soon as possible. 12 Thank you. 13 MR. HORTON: Thank you very much. 14 We appreciate your testimony before us 15 today. 16 We would request a copy so that we can have 17 the written document on file. 18 Uhm, Mr. Gilman. 19 MR. GILMAN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 20 Um, I believe this is a dispute over 21 ownership of property, Members. And it's -- it's 22 also my understanding that there -- there has been 23 some legal actions that's occurred on one or more of 24 the properties in question. 25 But I -- I also have to -- well, I need to 26 apologize to the Board because we have a 27 representative here from the Los Angeles County 28 Assessor's office, and that escaped me. And I 9 1 wanted to mention that we have Ms. Christina Scuipac 2 from the assessor's office and she is available to 3 address any questions that the Board may have on 4 this taxpayer's concern -- property owner, pardon 5 me, that she's brought before you today. 6 MR. HORTON: Let's welcome Ms. Scuipac to 7 the -- to the Board. Please have a seat, preferably 8 to the right of Mr. -- left of Mr. Gilman. Just in 9 case. 10 MR. GILMAN: I'd like to also recognize her 11 outstanding service. She's worked with my office 12 for many years. She was the ombudsperson, 13 ombudsman -- pardon me -- in assisting our office. 14 MR. HORTON: Just "woman." 15 MR. GILMAN: Ombudswoman assisting our 16 office in working with property owners and concerns 17 over the last seven years. And so she's been a 18 valuable resource for us in Los Angeles County. 19 MR. HORTON: Thank you very much for your 20 service to the Board and the people of State of 21 California. Welcome. 22 Um, any comments on the taxpayer's 23 concerns? 24 MS. SCUIPAC: Um, yes. Our office has met 25 with Ms. Hoang on various occasions. And we are 26 certainly interested in, uh, acquiring any new 27 information that Ms. Hoang may have to offer. 28 At this point the information that we've 10 1 received doesn't validate that she owns the 2 property -- uh, properties in question. But we 3 certainly, um, look forward to receiving any new 4 information. 5 MR. HORTON: Thank you. 6 Discussion, Members? 7 Hearing none, uh, thank you very much. 8 Thank you, ma'am, for appearing before us today. 9 The Board will receive and file your testimony. 10 Uhm, and we will submit that to the appropriate 11 authorities for their consideration. 12 MS. HOANG: Thank you. 13 MR. HORTON: Mr. Gilman. 14 MR. GILMAN: Okay, thank you. 15 Thank you. Mr. Chairman, again, with your 16 permission if there's anyone -- if there's anyone in 17 the audience who would like to come forward and make 18 a public comment on a property tax matter, with your 19 permission, if they could please step forward now. 20 MR. HORTON: Okay. Let's bring up some 21 more chairs. 22 Just kidding. 23 MR. GILMAN: Okay. And, again, for the 24 record, all written correspondence from the 25 advocate's office to those who have appeared before 26 you today at the Taxpayer Bill of Rights Hearing or 27 have submitted a written submission will be posted 28 to the Board's taxpayer's rights website. 11 1 MR. HORTON: All right. 2 Thank you, Mr. Gilman, appreciate your 3 work -- 4 MR. GILMAN: Thank you. 5 MR. HORTON: -- over the years. 6 MR. RUNNER: I think we have somebody 7 coming forward. 8 MR. HORTON: Oh, okay. All right. 9 Please. 10 MR. GILMAN: On property tax? 11 MR. MIRAMONTES: Yes. 12 MR. GILMAN: Okay. 13 MR. HORTON: As the taxpayer comes, are 14 there any others? 15 Just for the record, we're now on property 16 tax matters. 17 ---oOo--- 18 MIRNA MIRAMONTES 19 ---oOo--- 20 MS. MIRAMONTES: Yes, sir. My name is 21 Mirna Miramontes. 22 MR. HORTON: Welcome. 23 Sir? 24 MR. MIRAMONTES: My name is Everardo 25 Miramontes. I come with her to help her explain her 26 situation. 27 MR. HORTON: Is she in need of a 28 translator? 12 1 MR. MIRAMONTES: Uh, no, not really a 2 translator. But more like understanding exactly how 3 do I explain. 4 MR. HORTON: Okay. All right. 5 MR. MIRAMONTES: Now, if I may, she's in a 6 situation where -- where we find all of our friends, 7 similar -- similar to. 8 She had a loan modification done on her 9 property. But because of the resistance of the 10 bank, even though she made payments on a forbearance 11 agreement, those payments never counted towards the 12 property. So they counted towards the principal, 13 according to them. 14 But then they -- they said, okay, now your 15 modification is done, now you owe this much money. 16 So her property taxes, according to them, they're 17 going very high up. They say now you owe this 18 much -- this much money and all this interest and 19 all of this back. 20 MS. MIRAMONTES: Now, last year, the value 21 of my house went down. I didn't make any 22 improvements, anything. And then now the taxes went 23 up. 24 MR. HORTON: Okay. 25 MS. MIRAMONTES: That's the situation -- 26 I -- I have the proof of it here. 27 MR. MIRAMONTES: And also she was saying 28 that the -- for the property is much more, it's just 13 1 that she owes a lot more to the bank. 2 MR. HORTON: She's upside-down on her 3 property. 4 MR. MIRAMONTES: Yeah. And -- she said 5 part of the property taxes according to -- to -- to 6 what she owes to the bank. 7 MR. HORTON: Okay. Um, any comments? 8 MS. SCUIPAC: Well, we have property tax 9 bills in front of us. We don't have any 10 information. We'd have to look into the matter -- 11 MR. HORTON: Okay. 12 MS. SCUIPAC: -- to review the situation. 13 MR. HORTON: Yeah. We would ask that you 14 meet and confer with the taxpayer. 15 Only, sir, because it is a property tax 16 matter that is probably germane to the County 17 Assessor's Office, not the Board of Equalization. 18 Even though, you know, there's another Board of 19 Equalization out there that deals with different 20 issues. Uhm, and we welcome you here and we're 21 going to do what we can to assist you in getting 22 your concerns addressed by the appropriate agency. 23 MS. MIRAMONTES: Oh, thank you. 24 MR. MIRAMONTES: Thank you. 25 MS. MIRAMONTES: I appreciate it. 26 MR. HORTON: So they'll -- they'll meet 27 with you today though, while they're here. 28 MS. MIRAMONTES: Thank you, sir. 14 1 MR. GILMAN: This gentleman right here. 2 MS. MIRAMONTES: Thank you, sir. 3 MR. HORTON: Thank you. 4 Are there any others that would like to 5 come forward? 6 Please, sir. 7 ---oOo--- 8 ORIE VAUGHN 9 ---oOo--- 10 MR. VAUGHN: Hello. My name is Orie 11 Vaughn. And, uh -- 12 MR. HORTON: Welcome. 13 MR. VAUGHN: -- I didn't anticipate saying 14 anything at this conference. I just came to listen. 15 But now that you're talking about property taxes, 16 uh, I would just like to know if there is an appeal 17 process for a property once it has been deemed to 18 sell for the taxes. You know, is there appeal 19 process? 20 Um, I did talk to the people downtown and 21 they were telling me that there is not. So I'm 22 sitting on a property that I may have to sell 23 because of -- it does sort of connect because I've 24 been a businessman for 30 years. But this is 25 regarding me having a -- delinquent property taxes 26 which may take my property if I, uh, don't come up 27 with the, uh, money in default. 28 Um, I have a plan and that, since I have a 15 1 boat-load of equity, I can get my reverse mortgage 2 loan in five months. But the property is due to 3 auction in two months. So I'm in a dilemma in 4 trying to come up with $30,000. 5 And I don't know if that was too personal. 6 That's why I didn't want to talk about it. 7 MR. HORTON: No, no. Although, again, 8 that's not within the purview of the Board of 9 Equalization. 10 Uhm, based on the limited information that 11 you shared, there is a potential strategy relative 12 to the situation where there is equity in the 13 property and the property's in the process of 14 being -- the property tax delinquency is in the 15 process of being addressed as a result of the sale 16 of the property. 17 So -- but, again, we would ask that you 18 meet and confer with the experts that are here, and 19 hopefully they can find some resolution for you. 20 MR. VAUGHN: Thank you very much. 21 MR. HORTON: Okay. 22 ---oOo--- 23 WILLIAM MORSCHAUSER 24 ---oOo--- 25 MR. MORSCHAUSER: My name's William 26 Morschauser. 27 MR. HORTON: Welcome, sir. 28 MR. MORSCHAUSER: I wasn't going to come up 16 1 here because I have a scheduled hearing. But I 2 might as well talk about this. 3 MR. HORTON: Okay. 4 MR. MORSCHAUSER: I hope it has to do with 5 property. It's not my hearing. 6 MR. HORTON: Not your hearing, okay. 7 MR. MORSCHAUSER: It's a different matter, 8 okay. 9 MR. HORTON: Property. 10 MR. MORSCHAUSER: Yeah. 11 I had a piece of property and there was a 12 gas station on it that a tenant was renting. Okay. 13 He owned the gas station, he owned the tanks. And 14 then the State Board of Equalization levied my 15 property because he didn't pay the gas tax. 16 MR. HORTON: Storage fee, maybe. 17 MR. MORSCHAUSER: Yes. Yes. 18 MR. HORTON: Okay. 19 MR. MORSCHAUSER: And so I supplied that 20 individual's tax returns to the State Board of 21 Equalization to prove that he owned the tanks, that 22 I wasn't the owner of the tanks. 23 Uh, Taxpayer Advocate helped me out, but -- 24 but what they really did was just table the 25 collection. The proposed levy's still against my 26 property. Um -- 27 MR. HORTON: Without giving legal advice 28 from the dais, I -- I, too, would have to defer you 17 1 to the Department. 2 I will share with you that what you 3 generally shared is a concern of the Board relative 4 to where you have the storage fees and you own the 5 property, which under existing law you're liable 6 for -- for those fees, irrespective of the fact that 7 you're not operating the property. And therein is 8 part of the challenge because you don't get -- you 9 don't get noticed properly. You don't get noticed 10 in time. 11 MR. MORSCHAUSER: I got no notice. 12 MR. HORTON: No notice and so forth. 13 And -- and that's something that we are in the 14 process of trying to -- to deal with. 15 But, um, Mr. Gau is here, David Gau. He 16 heads up our Property Tax Division. And it's 17 fortunate that we have all these experts here 18 today. 19 MR. MORSCHAUSER: Yeah. 20 MR. HORTON: And -- and that we had no 21 knowledge of the concerns, but we're certainly 22 pleased that you've come before us. 23 And, Mr. Gau, do you want to speak on the 24 issue? And then at that -- and then subsequent to 25 that we would ask that you meet and confer with the 26 taxpayer. 27 MR. GAU: That's why I was coming forward. 28 David Gau, Deputy Director of the Property and 18 1 Special Taxes Department. 2 I was coming forward to offer my assistance 3 to talk to the individual and find out what his 4 particular situation might be and see if we can't -- 5 MR. HORTON: The challenge we have is 6 adjudicating or having to get into the details. 7 This is the best way. Gives them an opportunity to 8 get the details and then report back to us if there 9 isn't a resolution. 10 MR. GAU: Be happy to. 11 MR. HORTON: Thank you, Mr. Gau. 12 MR. MORSCHAUSER: Thank you. 13 So, now another one. I should have brought 14 it up in the individual Bill of Rights. 15 MR. HORTON: Okay. 16 MR. MORSCHAUSER: I had a, uh -- I was 17 before the Board before and you assessed me as a 18 partner of an individual I was in a partnership 19 with. Okay. So basically he -- he split. I had to 20 post the bond, the money, to stop collection. And 21 then I filed a claim for refund based on that. 22 Tax -- I mean, bankruptcy court, because he 23 was in bankruptcy court, issued an order saying that 24 I was not a partner of that individual. And then I 25 supplied it to the State Board of Equalization to 26 get my money back and my money had disappeared, 27 $55,000. So somebody charged my claim off for no 28 reason at all. 19 1 MS. MANDEL: Mr. Ferris is here. 2 MR. HORTON: Okay. Uhm, Mr. Ferris is 3 here, our Chief Legal Counsel. 4 MR. MORSCHAUSER: And again, Taxpayer 5 Advocate helped me on that. 6 MR. HORTON: Okay. And so, again, he's 7 offering his assistance, I'm sure. Um, we'd have to 8 get more information, which we will allow the time 9 to accomplish that objective. 10 MR. FERRIS: Absolutely. And it sounds 11 like you have worked with Mr. Gilman -- 12 MR. MORSCHAUSER: Mm-hmm. 13 MR. FERRIS: -- on this issue? Okay. 14 MR. MORSCHAUSER: Yes. But Taxpayer 15 Advocate helps out, but they're really busy so they 16 can't follow through. You know, they help out to 17 stop the problem. 18 MR. FERRIS: Right. 19 MR. MORSCHAUSER: Which is great. For 20 these three gentleman, it would have been perfect 21 for them to go to Taxpayer Advocate. They would 22 have stopped it. Those other three gentlemen that 23 were here. Because they jump on it right away for 24 you. 25 But follow-up just kind of lets -- they let 26 the system take care of it, and it just kind of sits 27 there. I mean, both of these examples I gave you 28 have been sitting there for almost two years. 20 1 MR. HORTON: Well, we appreciate you being 2 proactive, bringing it to our attention now and 3 certainly encourage you to, if there are any in the 4 future, don't hesitate to call either one of those 5 gentlemen -- 6 MR. MORSCHAUSER: Okay. 7 MR. HORTON: -- or us, or myself, or any 8 other Member of the Board. 9 MR. MORSCHAUSER: Thank you. 10 MR. HORTON: Thank you. 11 Okay. Are there any others that would like 12 to come and share their thoughts? 13 Just kidding. 14 Hearing none, Mr. Gilman. 15 MR. GILMAN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That 16 concludes the Taxpayer Bill of Rights Hearing for 17 July 17th, Culver City. Thank you. 18 MR. HORTON: Thank you very much, Mr. 19 Gilman. Appreciate you setting this up and helping 20 to facilitate this taxpayers hearing. And the work 21 that you do throughout the year, reaching out to the 22 taxpayers. As the -- each taxpayer seemed to have 23 implied you're doing an exceptional job and trying 24 to assist them to the extent that we can. And we 25 also appreciate your commitment to work with all the 26 other agencies that seem to be impacting our 27 taxpayers and to the extent that we can, to keep 28 them in business, keep them operating, keep them 21 1 creating jobs in the State of California. 2 Thank you. 3 MR. GILMAN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman and 4 Members. 5 ---oOo--- 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 22 1 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE 2 3 State of California ) 4 ) ss 5 County of Sacramento ) 6 7 I, KATHLEEN SKIDGEL, Hearing Reporter for 8 the California State Board of Equalization certify 9 that on July 17, 2013 I recorded verbatim, in 10 shorthand, to the best of my ability, the 11 proceedings in the above-entitled hearing; that I 12 transcribed the shorthand writing into typewriting; 13 and that the preceding pages 1 through 22 constitute 14 a complete and accurate transcription of the 15 shorthand writing. 16 17 Dated: July 30, 2013 18 19 20 ____________________________ 21 KATHLEEN SKIDGEL, CSR #9039 22 Hearing Reporter 23 24 25 26 27 28 23