1 BEFORE THE CALIFORNIA STATE BOARD OF EQUALIZATION 2 5901 GREEN VALLEY CIRCLE 3 CULVER CITY, CALIFORNIA 4 5 6 7 8 REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT 9 APRIL 24, 2012 10 11 12 13 14 ITEM F PUBLIC HEARINGS 15 ITEM F2 16 BUSINESS TAXPAYERS' BILL OF RIGHTS HEARINGS 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 REPORTED BY: Kathleen Skidgel 28 CSR NO. 9039 1 1 P R E S E N T 2 3 For the Board Jerome E. Horton of Equalization: Chairman 4 5 Michelle Steel Vice-Chairwoman 6 7 Betty T. Yee Member 8 9 George Runner Member 10 11 Marcy Jo Mandel Appearing for John 12 Chiang, State Controller (per Government Code 13 Section 7.9) 14 Joann Richmond 15 Chief Board Proceedings Division 16 17 Board of Equalization Staff: Todd Gilman 18 Chief, Taxpayers' Rights Advocates Office 19 20 21 ---oOo--- 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 2 1 INDEX OF SPEAKERS 2 NAME PAGE 3 Frances Harper 4 4 Juan Guzman 25 5 ---oOo--- 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 3 1 5901 GREEN VALLEY CIRCLE 2 CULVER CITY, CALIFORNIA 3 APRIL 24, 2012 4 ---oOo--- 5 MS. RICHMOND: Our next item is F2, Business 6 Taxpayer Bill of Rights Hearings. 7 Mr. Gilman. 8 MR. GILMAN: Oh. Lots of chairs. 9 MR. HORTON: Thank you, Mr. Gilman. Please 10 commence at your leisure. 11 MR. GILMAN: Thank you, Mr. Horton and Members 12 of the Board. Todd Gilman, Taxpayers' Rights Advocate 13 with the Board of Equalization. 14 The purposes of the hearing is to provide 15 individuals an opportunity to present their ideas, 16 concerns and recommendations regarding legislation, the 17 quality of agency services and other issues related to 18 the Board of Equalization's administration of its tax 19 programs, including sales and use tax, environmental 20 fees, fuel taxes, excise taxes, and any issues 21 identified in the Taxpayers' Rights Annual Report. 22 I'd like to thank those taxpayers that have 23 made the effort of the trek down here today. Um, we 24 have one speaker that signed in, Miss Frances Harper. 25 Ms. Harper, please come on up. 26 ---oOo--- 27 FRANCES HARPER 28 ---oOo--- 4 1 MR. HORTON: Welcome to the Board, Miss 2 Harper. 3 MS. HARPER: Thank you. Thank you for having 4 me here today. Um, I'd like to -- to read from my sheet 5 because I've been such a nervous wreck over all this 6 stuff. 7 MR. HORTON: Sure. 8 MS. HARPER: If you don't mind. And then I 9 would like to talk to you about it after. But I'd like 10 to have a chance to complete it because I don't want 11 what's happened to me happen to anybody else again. 12 MR. HORTON: Thank you very much. 13 MS. YEE: Could you pull the microphone closer 14 to you there? 15 MS. HARPER: Sure. Thank you. Sorry. 16 Okay. Um, I'd like to state that I'm Frances 17 Harper, and I was the owner, with my husband, of 18 Harper's Restaurant and Harper's Express in the 19 Westfield Shopping Mall in Century City. 20 Um, I would like to thank, before I get 21 started, a few good people who have helped me and done 22 their job representing the State Board of Equalization. 23 And that is Mr. Gilman -- I want to thank him for 24 listening and helping -- Diana Tay, in helping me to get 25 to this place where I am today. Because without them, I 26 would not be here. 27 Diana Tay, who has spent numerous painful hours 28 with me on the phone and got paperwork and details that 5 1 I not -- I could not get from the Culver City staff, for 2 compassionate understanding for what had happened to 3 Harper's Restaurant and Harper's Express, caring about 4 her job and the right of the taxpayer, and understanding 5 not everyone is a thief and there are unforeseen 6 circumstances that change your life irreversibly 7 forever, especially if you have been a business owner 8 since 1978. And for letting me vent on all my 9 frustrations and lack of help from the Culver City staff 10 and explaining things that I never knew. 11 Amy Kelly, who just got on board, for coming on 12 board and acting quickly in trying to help me. 13 Mr. Steven Adams, who listened to me and helped 14 me to get to the right direction and act in a way that I 15 would have expected the State Board employee to be, and 16 being helpful and explain details, procedures that can 17 be done. Thank you for being a godsend. 18 Mr. Costello, who did say write a letter, but 19 then turned me over to Mr. Ong. 20 I'd like to take a quote from Mr. Gilbert A. 21 Smith. His philosophy at the Culver City office is "To 22 honor the public through excellence and courteous 23 service." 24 I just met Mr. Smith, and I believe that is 25 totally true. But now I'm going to go to the negative 26 sides of what I've experienced of the Culver City staff. 27 His office does not represent any of these 28 qualities, starting with the receptionist who chews her 6 1 gum, doesn't acknowledge you when arrived at her window 2 because she's too busy having a social conversation with 3 another employee and can't stop to look up to say, "I'll 4 be right with you." 5 Two employees told me, "It's 5:00 o'clock and 6 we have to go because I don't get paid overtime." 7 Let's -- let's get to the major problems with 8 the State Board in Culver City. The staff that I've 9 dealt with was discriminating, threatening, 10 interrogating, rude, cared less about us, never giving 11 us our citizen's right or trying to help in any way. 12 Maryanne Brauer caused us to lose the sell of 13 our restaurant, lose both restaurants. She was in 14 charge of both our Express and our Harper's Restaurant. 15 I honestly feel -- and I never would say this about 16 somebody -- that somebody like that should be fired 17 because they never went to a higher person at the State 18 Board, knowing the evidence she received on the disaster 19 we encountered. 20 I have pictures that I would like to share with 21 you today -- I'd like them back afterwards, please -- 22 that shows what we -- what we had gone through. Okay. 23 Our locations, um, were under complete 24 construction. We had concrete falling in our food. We 25 had rain coming into the restaurant. You couldn't get 26 to the restaurant. Our main entranceway was Santa 27 Monica Boulevard, and it was closed, and our business 28 was barricaded. They even sent somebody out for a 7 1 payment and to evaluate this, and they saw that there 2 were only 35 people in the restaurant. 3 This situation was over a year and a half, and 4 we were only open three months when we got into this 5 Westfield Mall and they informed us of the construction, 6 never knowing of it prior or that the streets were going 7 to be closed. 8 We were never advised by a taxpayer or told 9 about a taxpayer advocate or an offer for appeal, or any 10 help or any staff, including the rude, discriminating 11 and very harassing Mr. Martinez who was the supervisor 12 that I finally was able to get to. He never mentioned 13 anything about my legal rights, just threatened me and 14 drilled me about my Social Security that I had just 15 collected because I have no job and because of three 16 evictions and losing the restaurant and having a tax 17 levy on me now. It's very difficult at 62 years old to 18 get these kind of things cleared up. 19 When I asked them not to put a levy on me, 20 Mr. Von Peppers just was very rude and abrupt and very 21 combative from the minute I met him. And I asked 22 Mr. Von Peppers to get me the supervisor. I said, "I 23 don't know why you're being combative." And he said, 24 "What do you hope to accomplish here today?" And I 25 said, "I would like to you look at all the penalties and 26 interest that you charged us for both restaurants, and I 27 think that we've overpaid you. If you could look at it 28 and do something for me to make this bill go away." 8 1 He said -- I had brought papers to show proof 2 of payments from another -- Mr. Ong who said that there 3 were payments that were not showing. So I had to try 4 and research. 5 When I was evicted from my businesses, I lost 6 everything. I didn't know I was going to be evicted. 7 The Marshals came in and threw me out. I lost my 8 businesses. I lost my house. I have the clothes on my 9 back. I'm sorry. 10 Not having property building statements or 11 anything, I had to go through a lot of work. It took a 12 couple of months to go back to banks to try and get 13 somebody to help me, to come back with documentation. 14 Um, I came back and he said, "Well, we already 15 have those." And I said, "Well, how come Mr. Ong didn't 16 have those? How come, if he gave me a printout with all 17 the payments, those weren't on there?" And I have those 18 papers to show. 19 My husband had, um, opened and operated our 20 business since 1978, so I have not really had any 21 franchise tax or State Board tax or any dealings with 22 any paperwork or financial stuff. I'm more of a -- a 23 director, okay. 24 Um, I -- the circumstances were definitely out 25 of our control. We didn't know what was going to happen 26 to us. We invested our whole life in building two new 27 restaurants, and in three months we were totally 28 upside-down. Okay. 9 1 Not one person here acted in good faith or 2 cared, in the Culver City office. They are just here to 3 collect a paycheck and make themselves look good. 4 My suggestion for the State Board: It should 5 be mandatory for any person applying for a sales tax 6 permit to have a training class as to what it means to 7 purchase a sales permit; what are your responsibilities 8 if you sign for a permit; a video that shows to all 9 persons signing the permit; a test to confirm you 10 understand, and initials on all subjects that make you 11 responsible. If spouses are involved, they should not 12 do it in the same class or at the same time as their 13 spouses. 14 I was married to my husband for -- I'd been 15 with him over 33 years. He opened a business in 1978. 16 I had no reason to ever question or understand what I 17 signed. I spent five minutes in this office and signed 18 a seller's permit. 19 I never opened a business. I never understood 20 what I signed because my husband had handled it. After 21 all the years in business and over 20 years of marriage, 22 I had no reason not to trust him. 23 I had to sign for the liquor license, the 24 seller's permit and the lease because my credit was the 25 one that was getting the loans. So in good faith to my 26 husband, I signed these documents. And if you go back 27 from 1978, this man had -- was an upright citizen who 28 has paid his taxes. Even through the problems of the 10 1 closure, before our business closed, we still managed to 2 struggle to pay. 3 You need to take a look at your innocent spouse 4 requirements for an LLC, and it should be revised. I'm 5 not sure I'm the only wife that has ever made this 6 innocent mistake and trusted everything was fine and in 7 order. 8 I can honestly say I was blaming my husband 9 until I got involved with fighting for this situation. 10 I no longer do that. The State Board drove my husband 11 off the edge and he almost died because of everything. 12 Every week he had to come in here to Maryanne Brauer, 13 trying to make a payment and give him a way of how he 14 was going to try to make a payment under the horrific 15 circumstances and construction we were in. 16 Maryanne Brauer did nothing to say, "Just pay 17 the taxes and we'll try to come to a settlement with you 18 under these conditions." It was as if this national 19 disaster, but no one cared. 20 You need to change your guidelines if someone 21 has just opened and all of this construction and street 22 closing happens without notice to them. They didn't 23 give us a chance to make any profit, let alone break 24 even, and taxes were still due. And we did pay our 25 taxes, but you killed us with penalties and interest. 26 You could never get catch-up for the two businesses in 27 the same location. 28 Not one person at this Culver City acted in a 11 1 human way. You'd not have an allowance of some sort to 2 waive the penalties and fees until construction and 3 business was reopened. 4 People like myself are not lawyers and they 5 don't always understand tax laws. Tax advocates should 6 be allowed to help defend the person in trouble, 7 especially when they have lost everything due to the 8 lack of negligence and they can't afford an attorney. 9 I also feel the State Board should be 10 responsible for the lack of time to get back to people 11 with problems. You punish them for their mistakes by 12 charging interest and penalties. But yet the staff is 13 never held accountable for the lack of action, and there 14 are no repercussions for their misconduct. There's no 15 punishment and standards applied to the State Board. I 16 had to get an advocate to make anything happen and even 17 have explained to me what happened. 18 When you get a notice mailed, the State Board 19 staff -- on November 30th of 2007 my husband came in 20 here to talk to Maryanne Brauer, saying that they had 21 taken money from our American Express merchant accounts 22 and told we were -- we were evicted. 23 On January 17th, in January 2008 I talked to 24 Dan Nagel (phonetic), and I had told him -- I don't know 25 if it's Dan or Deborah -- but that we were evicted from 26 our businesses, that we lost everything including our 27 two restaurants, all the contents that were in the 28 restaurant that were sellable, our houses, our cars and 12 1 lack of the State Board if someone should have done an 2 investigation and failed, how to help us as taxpayers. 3 After begging Mr. Von Peppers and Mr. Martinez 4 not to levy the little money I had in my bank account, 5 they didn't offer any help nor solution. Then made a 6 remark, "They better act fast," and embarrassed me at 7 the bank by taking the only money I had, left me in debt 8 with the bank. I owe a legal fee now for which I have 9 no money. As a result, they did not help me but 10 aggravated my financial problems and stress. 11 You need to be accurate with accountants over 12 three years. If you make a mistake -- which I never 13 have done a sales report. I was ordered by the court, 14 when my husband was having trouble, to go into the 15 business. I wasn't even upstairs a short time, and they 16 asked me to sign a -- 17 What is it called? That sheet that you give 18 the sales on? 19 MR. GILMAN: The return? The tax return? 20 MS. HARPER: I guess it's a tax return, yeah. 21 I'm not a bookkeeper. I've never done the 22 books in my life. And, um, there was a mistake that 23 Mr. Ong brought to my attention, from two '07, in two 24 '11. Now I had talked to Mr. Nagel and asked -- you 25 know, he said I needed to do the third quarter. And I 26 said I had no records, that everything was revoked, I 27 would have to try and get ahold of an attorney from 28 Westfield to get that report done. I don't know how to 13 1 do the report. The bookkeeper that always did our 2 reports, I tried to get ahold of and he -- he figured 3 out how to do the three. 4 But in 2011, I found that there -- they said 5 there was a mistake on the quart -- a quarter before, 6 that there was a $2,000 penalty. And I said, "Why 7 wasn't I notified when you made -- when I made the 8 payment?" There was a bounced check, and I paid that 9 check, that my husband had written. 10 Why, at that time, wasn't I told that there was 11 an error on that line and that that $2,000 wasn't 12 brought to my attention when the business was still open 13 and I could have paid it? But now, 2011 you're coming 14 after me with taxes and penalties and interest and 15 everything else, when this doesn't make mistake -- it 16 was an honest mistake, but I wouldn't even know it was a 17 mistake because I'd -- I've never done a report like 18 that. 19 I heard nothing from Mr. Ong in August until 20 then. Um, explained that -- when Westfield closed us 21 out, they took everything. They took all -- everything, 22 all of our records, they took everything. They took the 23 furnitures, the fixtures, and -- and took the money out 24 of the register. So I was literally left with nothing. 25 Okay. 26 Uh, at one point Maryanne Brauer had called, 27 and I told her that we lost everything and that the only 28 thing that was left for the last quarter would have been 14 1 the liquor license to levy, and that was -- the bill, I 2 think, I believe was for Harper's Express. And I said, 3 but the liquor license is going to be sold and there's 4 no money from anywhere. 5 I was on welfare. My husband was on welfare. 6 We were not living together. And the only place for her 7 to get this money would be to levy or lien, whatever you 8 call it, the -- the liquor license. 9 We paid over $23,000 for interest and penalties 10 for Harper's Express even though we were in a 11 disaster -- disaster situation. I asked for a total 12 calculation of how much interest and penalties we paid 13 for Harper's Restaurant and Harper's Express, and they 14 couldn't give it to me. And when you get sheets of 15 paper and sheets of paper, I would think at this stage, 16 with all the computer systems and -- and bookkeeping 17 that can be done, you're blaming me for bookkeeping, but 18 you can't even keep your own bookkeeping? You can't 19 give a total of what you charged us under distress for 20 three years that we were open of how much penalties and 21 interest that you charged? 22 I honestly feel that I don't owe any money. 23 There was an honest mistake and there was no money left 24 at the close of business. 25 If -- if you look back and go through the 26 files, if anybody really paid attention here, they would 27 admit that they made a mistake and that they never got 28 me help; that not one person said, "Let me try and talk 15 1 to a supervisor or get you the help you need to get you 2 through this," that I could have sold my business and 3 saved at least a restaurant and a house. 4 My son was kicked out of college because of 5 this because I couldn't pay his tuition. I have three 6 evictions on my -- my -- my report. Now I have a tax 7 lien. The State destroyed -- Board really destroyed 30 8 years of hard work and respect that we had in Century 9 City. I sit on the Board for the Century City Chamber. 10 I was Woman of Achievement. My husband and I were good 11 people. We weren't thieves. But yet, we were 12 interrogated and treated like thieves, like we were 13 stealing the State Board's money, which we weren't. 14 Without having a chef to go to work, I couldn't 15 get a customer in. And if you look at these pictures, 16 you'll see how desperate we were. But nobody, no one 17 from this office offered us assistance or help. 18 We tried to get attorneys. We tried to get 19 people to do management, and no one. And if it wasn't 20 for the people from Sacramento, I probably would have 21 ended up already with a nervous breakdown because you've 22 had me so distressed I almost got killed leaving here 23 with the horrible meeting I had from Mr. Martinez. 24 So if you give a person a supervisor's job, 25 they should be aware. And if you keep changing people, 26 that doesn't help anybody. You need to change because 27 Maryanne Brauer didn't tell us that there was a place in 28 Sacramento. 16 1 I talked to so many people, and I finally was 2 so frustrated. One day I got somebody wonderful up in 3 Sacramento who got me to -- to Mr. Adams who -- who 4 helped and gave us the direction. But I believe these 5 people sitting here, I think you all care. But, you 6 know, we're in a different time and we're in a lot of 7 crises, and people need help. They don't need to be 8 belittled and kicked when they're already down. Help 9 other people. But you caused me to lose everything. 10 Thank you for your time. 11 MR. HORTON: Thank -- thank you as well. 12 Discussion, Members? 13 MR. RUNNER: Just quick -- a quick question. 14 MR. HORTON: Mr. Runner. 15 MR. RUNNER: To, um, taxpayer advocate. Uh, 16 what's the normal procedure for giving options to 17 individuals as they would be dealing within one of our 18 offices in terms of either appeal or, um, other options 19 that they may have in regards to addressing a -- a, uh, 20 difficult situation? 21 MR. GILMAN: That's a good question, Senator 22 Runner. I mean, first off, the staff are charged with 23 the responsibility of trying to collect the liability 24 obviously. And over a period of time, after they 25 determine that the taxpayer maybe doesn't have the 26 wherewithal, you know, they should be thinking about 27 what the taxpayer might have as an option. For example, 28 like Offers in Compromise, if the taxpayer qualifies. 17 1 But you're not going to know that until you've 2 gone through the process in trying to, you know, collect 3 the liability from the taxpayer. But I would imagine 4 that at a certain point in time, you're going to realize 5 that this taxpayer doesn't have the wherewithal to be 6 able to pay that liability. 7 And as I understand that I spoke with, uh, 8 Mr. Mashihara, yesterday, we met when I flew in, as well 9 as Gilbert Smith, and they assured me that their staff 10 are informed that this -- these are other programs that 11 are available to taxpayers, including the Taxpayers' 12 Rights Advocate's Office, that they provide their staff. 13 Now, whether the staff are giving it to the taxpayers or 14 advising the taxpayers of that, I don't know. 15 MR. RUNNER: And how about just information in 16 regards to the appeal process once a determination is 17 made? 18 MR. GILMAN: Well, of course it's on the 19 notice, but I don't exactly what the staff are telling 20 the taxpayer at that point, no. 21 MR. RUNNER: Okay. Um, let me just -- and 22 then -- and then to the taxpayer, you -- you somehow got 23 connected then to folks up in Sacramento. 24 MS. HARPER: Yes. 25 MR. RUNNER: How did that take place? 26 MS. HARPER: I -- I think I called up one day 27 after I left here and almost killed myself because of 28 the accident, because I was so upset. I called up and I 18 1 got this lovely lady, Susanna who gave me Mr. Adams' 2 phone number. 3 MR. RUNNER: You called up to this office or 4 to -- 5 MS. HARPER: Sacramento. 6 MR. GILMAN: I think it went through the 7 Director's Office, I think. And then it worked its way 8 down to Petitions. 9 MR. RUNNER: Okay. 10 MS. HARPER: I would like to add one more 11 thing. This was a very difficult situation. When 12 you've lost your house and you're kicked out, and you go 13 home and the Marshals have locked you out and you've 14 lost your businesses, you have no mail address, you 15 can't get an apartment. And I had to have -- I mean, I 16 was, like, so pathetic. I didn't know about this tax 17 problem, first of all. I mean, I found out in 2011 18 that -- that there was a mistake on a two '07 return 19 because there was one percent something not done. I 20 don't even understand what it was. But Diana did try to 21 explain to me. 22 When you're not getting your mail, you know, 23 there's routes that they can take. They knew how to 24 find me to take away the money -- the little money I had 25 in my bank account. But they couldn't find us -- and 26 when you call people and you tell them you're evicted, 27 such as I told Dan Nagel, you know, something should be 28 done. You're talking about '08, and they're coming 19 1 and -- and harassing me. 2 My life hasn't been able to go forward. They 3 had me so scared that they were going to take the car 4 that I own, from my ex-husband's 95-year-old uncle that 5 I can't even pay right now. I have nothing. But yet, 6 they never go back and make an apology or say, I screwed 7 up. And when you don't have a mailing address and you 8 can find their bank account, well, you can certainly 9 find something else out about a person. But they could 10 have called you in with dignity. 11 My ex-husband is so -- a different person 12 today. He's so bitter. He was in a bankruptcy stay. I 13 don't understand all of that, like I said, because I 14 wasn't -- I put him into a bankruptcy, but they said it 15 didn't take. Then he said it was. So, that litigation 16 part I don't know. But the fact still remains that 17 nobody at this office in Culver City reached out to us. 18 And if I didn't get to the contact that I got with 19 Mr. Adams, I couldn't be sitting here today. 20 And you -- you've just ruined me. You've worn 21 me out. I can't even think straight. And I'm a smart 22 businesswoman, but I never did books. I never handled 23 taxes. I never -- I train. I -- I -- I work with 24 people. Well, this is something you don't have at this 25 office. 26 These people are only worried about getting 27 their paycheck and getting out by 5:00 o'clock. And 28 that's really what I feel. I do say that I did meet 20 1 Mr. Smith, and I do believe that what his philosophy is 2 he will try and accomplish. But how many people leave 3 here and are broken the way I was and didn't get the 4 opportunity to get an advocate to come to their place? 5 I'm proud to be an American. And I'm proud to 6 be a hard worker. And I've never done anything wrong. 7 And to be treated and humiliated and disgraced the way 8 that I have, as much as I tried, I even made a bad check 9 good. But yet when I walked in here, I had these two 10 bigshots, Mr. Von Peppers and Mr. Martinez. "We're not 11 going to do anything to help you. You have to pay." 12 "What do you mean your Social Security check isn't 13 deposited in the bank? Why?" 14 Do you think that I should be treated like 15 that? If I had walked in here with a lawyer, or a man, 16 I would have never been treated that way. And I've had 17 respect from many business people. I just don't think 18 that these are people that care. And I think that in 19 the crisis we're in today, there's probably a lot more 20 people in this boat that I am, but we need to have 21 compassion because you never know -- I never -- I've 22 always helped people. I never thought I'd be one of 23 those people. 24 MR. RUNNER: Thank you. 25 MR. HORTON: Further discussion, Members? 26 Miss Harper, on behalf of the, um, the entire 27 Board of Equalization, let me offer you that apology 28 that you have not yet received. 21 1 Uh, we certainly empathize with the, uh, things 2 that have happened, the challenges that you have faced, 3 and particularly compound with that of being an innocent 4 spouse, not aware, necessarily, of the -- of the 5 transactions that have come before you and the 6 challenges that you face at that particular time. 7 One of the issues of many institutions is to 8 take an institution and have it have that human 9 component injected within a systemic indifferences that 10 can exist. And -- and so that in and of itself is a 11 challenge. Just balancing the two, the responsibility 12 to the entire State of California, fulfilling your 13 fiduciary responsibility of collecting the tax, as well 14 as being sensitive to the challenging times that we've 15 faced over the last couple of years. 16 And so, to that extent, I want to -- to 17 apologize to you. I mean, as a somewhat, uh, 25-year 18 former employee with the Board of Equalization, I can 19 share with you that the vast majority of our employees 20 are empathetic and they are concerned about the welfare 21 of those people that they -- that they represent. 22 However, like in all situations, we run into 23 these, uh, indifferences from time to time. And that's 24 why we have the Taxpayers' Advocate Office in order to 25 provide you that service. And my apology that that 26 information was not made available to you sooner. 27 In that regard, I want to thank, uh, 28 Mr. Gilman, and his team as well, for engaging and 22 1 bringing some resolution, uh, to this particular 2 problem. And we will take your recommendations under 3 consideration, particularly like the aspect of the 4 innocent spouse. When there's an innocent spouse 5 involved, for staff to be made aware that this is an 6 innocent spouse that may not have the information that 7 we presume that she has, or the knowledge that she 8 presume, relative to that transaction. And you're 9 certainly not unique in that way. 10 So, uh, and the penalties and interest, being 11 able to abate that as it relates to when your business 12 is either shut down and so forth, uh, or at least have 13 some understanding, allow delay in that process, timely 14 responding to a taxpayer. 15 Uh, so, we thank you for coming before us 16 and -- and sharing, uh, your story. Uh, we understand 17 that that is indicative of many stories. And so you 18 represent, uh, other individuals that have not had the 19 good fortune of coming before the Board to share their 20 stories. 21 So, to Mr. Gilman, on behalf of the -- 22 representing the Board of Equalization, we thank you for 23 your work and your entire team. 24 And to you, Miss Harper, we thank you as 25 well. 26 MS. HARPER: Thank you. 27 MR. GILMAN: Thank you. 28 MR. HORTON: Further discussion, Members? 23 1 MS. MANDEL: Uh, no. They're just going to 2 give you your pictures back. 3 MS. HARPER: Thank you. 4 MS. YEE: Mr. Chairman. 5 MR. HORTON: Member Yee. 6 MS. YEE: I guess, uh, a question for 7 Mr. Gilman. I know that, um, after these hearings you 8 follow up with the Board -- 9 MR. GILMAN: Right. 10 MS. YEE: -- with respect to -- 11 MR. GILMAN: Yes. 12 MS. YEE: -- appropriate actions or 13 recommendations. And, uh, I think from what we've heard 14 today from Miss Harper, it seems to me that, um, perhaps 15 some areas for improvement might be in the training and 16 outreach area. 17 MR. GILMAN: Absolutely, Board Member Yee. In 18 fact, I -- I took the opportunity to meet with our 19 Deputy Director before I left because, obviously, we've 20 been working with Miss Harper's case, as well as took 21 the liberty of meeting with Mr. Mashihara and Mr. Smith 22 yesterday. But absolutely, yes. 23 MS. YEE: Okay. And I'm thinking beyond 24 just -- 25 MR. GILMAN: Oh, yeah. 26 MS. YEE: -- this particular -- right. 27 MR. GILMAN: Correct. 28 MS. YEE: Agency-wide. Thank you. 24 1 MR. GILMAN: Yes. Yes, ma'am. 2 Okay. Um, we have another speaker, I believe. 3 Uh, Mr. Juan Guzman. 4 Mr. Guzman, if you're here, please come on up. 5 MR. HORTON: He is. 6 ---oOo--- 7 JUAN GUZMAN 8 ---oOo--- 9 MR. GUZMAN: Mr. Chairman -- 10 MR. HORTON: Welcome, sir. 11 MR. GUZMAN: -- Members, my name is Juan 12 Guzman. 13 The comments that I have are general comments, 14 not really focused on any district, but a few things 15 that I've seen as a rep. and, uh, I'd like to convey to 16 you. 17 Uh, one thing is the power of attorney. It 18 seems once we give the power of attorney to the auditor, 19 everybody should know that I have a power of attorney. 20 But I get to a hearing, Where is your power of attorney? 21 Come in here, Where is your power of attorney? 22 So my recommendation is, in your system, maybe 23 someone can put in there who are the powers of attorney. 24 Number one. 25 The other issue is really following up on what 26 we just heard, in general. I also assist people in the 27 collections side. And I deal with a lot of 28 Spanish-speaking people. And believe it or not, in most 25 1 cases, the Spanish-speaking people that you have in 2 collections are very abusive. No recommendations. You 3 must pay. You must pay. You must pay. 4 These are people, lost their jobs, lost their 5 business, lost their homes, don't speak English. All 6 they want, come forward, I want to pay, and this is what 7 I have. But -- but there's no recommendation. Now say, 8 there's an installment agreement, there's an offer in 9 compromise. Something. The taxpayer's there, not 10 hiding. They want to pay. 11 So those are the two issues I want to bring up 12 in general. 13 The other issue that I come across from 14 district-to-district on the audit side, different 15 methods being used to audit certain businesses. 16 Example, you have a regulation that deals with the 17 dining industry and it talks specifically about the 18 credit card analysis. Well, okay, if it works good for 19 the dining industry, it must work good in the tobacco 20 industry. And I don't think so. That's a totally 21 different animal. Different clientele, different sales. 22 Customers go to a restaurant, they may spend an hour or 23 two. A person goes, buys a pack of cigarettes, tobacco, 24 five minutes. 25 So, I'm just hoping that there be some 26 consistency with the methods used as far as different 27 industries are concerned. I always have that challenge 28 of people using something that's used in one industry 26 1 and try to make it fit someplace else. 2 So those are my only concerns at this point in 3 time. 4 MR. HORTON: Thank you very much, Mr. Guzman. 5 MR. GUZMAN: Thank you. 6 MR. HORTON: Uh, discussion, Members? 7 Thank you again. 8 MR. GUZMAN: Sure. 9 MR. HORTON: Mr. Gilman. 10 MR. GILMAN: Thank you. At this time, Mr. 11 Horton, I'd like to, with your permission, if there are 12 any other taxpayers out there that would like to come 13 before the Board and address them on the business tax 14 matters, to please do so now. 15 MR. HORTON: Okay. Make room. 16 MR. GILMAN: Don't all come up at once, right? 17 Okay. Um, and we have one written submission, 18 um, that was provided to me by Representative Abe 19 Golomb. And actually, I think, it's a very interesting 20 recommendation. It's to provide some ideas and 21 suggestions for improving the BOE's free iPhone apps. 22 And, uh, I've taken the liberty -- we have an 23 app for the BOE that's to the iPhone and the other 24 devices as well. Um, but I've taken the liberty of 25 contacting the Application Development Branch within our 26 IT division. And they welcome the input. They welcome 27 the ideas. And so they're going to contact Mr. Golomb 28 directly and to follow up on some of his recommendations 27 1 to broaden these apps. 2 I think one of the recommendations was to have 3 more access to services such as my office, a way to get 4 to that, and maybe even the Board Members' offices, too. 5 But that's going to be looked into by our IT folks, and 6 I'm sure they'll be in contact with your offices as 7 well. 8 MR. HORTON: Excellent. Excellent. 9 ---oOo--- 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 28 1 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE 2 3 State of California ) 4 ) ss 5 County of Sacramento ) 6 7 I, KATHLEEN SKIDGEL, Hearing Reporter for the 8 California State Board of Equalization certify that on 9 April 24, 2012 I recorded verbatim, in shorthand, to the 10 best of my ability, the proceedings in the 11 above-entitled hearing; that I transcribed the shorthand 12 writing into typewriting; and that the preceding pages 1 13 through 28 constitute a complete and accurate 14 transcription of the shorthand writing. 15 16 Dated: May 3, 2012 17 18 19 ____________________________ 20 KATHLEEN SKIDGEL, CSR #9039 21 Hearing Reporter 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29