1 BEFORE THE CALIFORNIA STATE BOARD OF EQUALIZATION 2 450 N STREET 3 SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 4 5 6 7 8 REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT 9 FEBRUARY 23, 2011 10 11 SPECIAL TAXES APPEAL HEARING 12 PETITION FOR RELEASE OF SEIZED PROPERTY 13 VINAY VOHRA AND VIKRAM VOHRA 14 NO. 553888 (ET) 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 Reported by: Juli Price Jackson 24 CSR No. 5214 25 26 27 28 1 1 P R E S E N T 2 For the Board Jerome E. Horton of Equalization: Chairman 3 4 Michelle Steel Vice-Chairwoman 5 6 Betty T. Yee Member 7 8 George Runner Member 9 10 Marcy Jo Mandel Appearing for John 11 Chiang,State Controller (per Government Code 12 Section 7.9) 13 Diane G. Olson Chief 14 Board Proceedings Division 15 16 For Board of Cindy Chiu Equalization Staff: Staff Counsel 17 18 For Department: Pamela Mash Tax Counsel 19 20 Stephen Smith Legal Department 21 22 Mark Edwards Investigations Division 23 24 For Petitioner: Vinay Vohra Taxpayer 25 26 Vikram Vohra Taxpayer 27 28 John Renna Bookkeeper 2 1 450 N STREET 2 SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 3 FEBRUARY 23, 2011 4 ---o0o--- 5 MR. HORTON: Ms. Olson, what's our next 6 scheduled matter? 7 MS. OLSON: Our next item is D3, Vinay Vohra 8 and Vikram Vohra. 9 Please come forward. 10 MR. HORTON: Ms. Chiu, please introduce the 11 matter. 12 MS. CHIU: The issue in this petition is 13 whether the seized tobacco products in the Board's 14 custody were properly seized and should be forfeited. 15 MR. HORTON: Thank you very much. 16 Will the taxpayers introduce themselves for the 17 records? 18 You have ten minutes to make your presentation. 19 MR. VIKRAM VOHRA: Good morning -- 20 MR. HORTON: Followed by the Department. 21 MR. VIKRAM VOHRA: -- good afternoon, ladies 22 and gentlemen. 23 My name is Vikram Vohra and I'm one of the 24 owner at one of the convenience stores. It's called 25 Palm Bluff Liquor. 26 We recently opened that like a convenience 27 store last year, it's a brand new store. And one day 28 like, you know, we had other locations too. We had one 3 1 of the gas station where we sell the same product. And 2 we were out of the product. And we want the business to 3 be successful because this is a brand new business. 4 So, we were out on one of the products, so, I 5 brought some product from the other store and put it 6 over there. 7 And the Department, Board of Equalization 8 people, they were there and they checked it. And they 9 checked everything. They were there at same location 10 couple of months before, when we brand new open and they 11 did not find anything. 12 They did came to our other location to inspect 13 it and never find anything wrong or anything. They were 14 always satisfied. 15 On that day it was transferred from the other 16 store. And only three questions, like the only 17 questions they had was about those three boxes and which 18 to explained them it was brought from the other store 19 and if I -- "If you guys want, I can go there right now 20 and get you the invoices." 21 They said no, like they're going to give you 22 the ticket right now so you can present the invoices on 23 the later date. 24 So, we (unintelligible) and the invoices are 25 with the Board Members and everybody. And that tax has 26 been paid and everything. 27 But the only thing is like, you know, our 28 mistake is we brought the stuff from the other store. 4 1 MR. VINAY VOHRA: And can I speak? 2 MR. HORTON: Yes, sir. 3 MR. VINAY VOHRA: Yes, sir. I'm his brother. 4 He is my younger brother as well as partners. And we 5 are the partner on the both of the stores. 6 This cigar he brought it from and cigar -- the 7 cigar he bring it to, there's only three boxes, like in 8 the -- the value of the boxes are $105 and is all tax 9 paid and nothing is like that. We are in this business 10 from ten years, never get audit, never get any alcohol 11 ticket, never any get any cigarette ticket. 12 At least State Board of Equalization people who 13 came in this ten years, maybe like 15 times, we are 14 clean people. We never did anything wrong. Only thing 15 my brother did wrong or we want our business to be 16 successful, so, he just brought -- we ran out of that 17 product and he brought it from there. 18 And that's all. We made a mistake. And -- but 19 it's a tax paid. Nothing -- if they ever show me we 20 will be out. So, he forgot to mention that. 21 All I wanted to clear that. 22 MR. HORTON: Thank you very much, sir. 23 Will the Department introduce themselves for 24 the record? 25 You'll have ten minutes to make your 26 presentation, upon which time we'll return to you for 27 rebuttal. 28 MR. VIKRAM VOHRA: Thank you. 5 1 MS. MASH: Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Members 2 of the Board. 3 I'm Pamela Mash from the Board's Legal 4 Department, along with Mark Edwards and Steve Smith 5 representing staff. 6 The staff agrees with the recommendation of the 7 Appeals Division. Under the licensing act when the 8 Board discovers that a retailer possesses tobacco 9 products on which tax is due but has not been paid, the 10 Board is authorized to seize that product. 11 It's presumed under the licensing act that tax 12 has not been paid unless the retailer possessing the 13 product provides a purchase invoice showing that it 14 purchased tax included product from a licensed 15 distributor or wholesaler. 16 In this case investigators inspected 17 Petitioners' store, Palm Bluffs Liquor, and Petitioner 18 was not able to show that tax was paid on some of the 19 tobacco products available for sale in the store. That 20 product was seized. And it was valued at around $180. 21 Petitioner later did provide staff with 22 invoices listing Petitioners' other store, Fast and Easy 23 No. 4, as the purchaser. However, Petitioner has 24 provided no documentation to prove that a transfer of 25 these products took place between the two stores. 26 A purchase invoice shows which retail location 27 purchased that specific product. So, a retailer with 28 multiple locations who transfers product from one store 6 1 to another product can establish that the product in his 2 possession is tax paid only if the retailer documents 3 the transfer of inventory between the two stores. 4 Without transfer documentation prepared at the 5 time of the transfer, it's impossible to establish that 6 the seized products are the same products that were 7 purchased by Fast and Easy No. 4 and later transferred 8 to Palm Bluffs Liquor. 9 Because Petitioner has not established that 10 Palm Bluffs Liquor has paid taxes on the products at 11 issue, the products were properly seized and they cannot 12 be returned. 13 Thank you. 14 MR. HORTON: Thank you very much. 15 Rebuttal, please? 16 MR. VIKRAM VOHRA: Yes, the product was bought 17 at Fast and Easy No. 4 and all the invoices were 18 presented to them. 19 And even I like told them on the same time if 20 they wanted to go see the invoices, I can go and get the 21 invoices. 22 But they told me, no, you don't have to bring 23 the invoices now, you have to present it on a later 24 date. 25 And I do have a piece of paper, not a proper 26 documentation of the transfer of the product, just a 27 piece of paper which says, you know, like three boxes of 28 the cigars. But they did not accept it. They wanted to 7 1 see some kind of a proper documentation. 2 I don't know what kind it is, maybe like, you 3 know, something computer note or something, which shows, 4 you know, like this has been like taken from that store 5 and taken to other store. And maybe like -- I don't 6 know how they want that to be signed. You know, maybe I 7 signed it and my brother signed it. 8 Our common understanding is if once in a while, 9 if you're out on something, we can always, you know, 10 take it back and forth. 11 But that was our mistake, like we don't have a 12 proper documentation of the transfer documents. 13 That's all. But all of the taxes have been 14 paid and we have invoices from the authorized 15 wholesaler, which clearly shows like all the taxes have 16 been paid on those tobacco. 17 MR. HORTON: Thank you very much. 18 MS. STEEL: Question? 19 MR. HORTON: Ms. Steel? 20 MS. STEEL: How many stores you own? 21 MR. VIKRAM VOHRA: Like we are in partnership 22 like five to six stores, ma'am. 23 MS. STEEL: Exactly how many stores? 24 MR. VIKRAM VOHRA: Six in partnership. 25 MS. STEEL: Six stores, partnerships. 26 MR. VIKRAM VOHRA: And like on that period of 27 times, you know, like State Board of Equalization, they 28 always come there, always inspect it and never find 8 1 anything wrong. 2 MS. STEEL: Okay, got it. 3 You have those two stores that you transferred 4 from one store to another, those two are owned by -- 5 MR. VIKRAM VOHRA: Owned by the same ownership, 6 ma'am. 7 MS. STEEL: Just two of you? 8 MR. VIKRAM VOHRA: Yes, ma'am. 9 MS. STEEL: The other stores that partnership, 10 it's two brothers too? 11 MR. VIKRAM VOHRA: Yes, ma'am. 12 MS. STEEL: Okay. You said you had the 13 transfer document that it was kind of like a memo style? 14 MR. VIKRAM VOHRA: It was -- 15 MS. STEEL: Did you give that to the 16 Department? 17 MR. VIKRAM VOHRA: I tried to show it to them. 18 I just took plain paper -- 19 MS. STEEL: Right. 20 MR. VIKRAM VOHRA: -- which shows, you know, 21 like the three boxes, like, you know, we keep it for our 22 record. 23 MS. STEEL: Yeah. 24 MR. VIKRAM VOHRA: Because we want the 25 inventory to be correct too. 26 MS. STEEL: Okay. 27 MR. VIKRAM VOHRA: We don't want like, you 28 know, one store is making more profit and we try to, you 9 1 know, suspect the different employee was good employee. 2 MS. STEEL: Okay. 3 MR. VIKRAM VOHRA: Yeah. 4 MS. STEEL: So, Department, when you saw that 5 memo or the document, why you're not accepting that? 6 MS. MASH: Staff has not seen any such 7 document. 8 MS. STEEL: Do you have it? 9 MR. VIKRAM VOHRA: I don't have it with me. 10 I tried to show it to them, I said I had a 11 piece of paper. They said, no, we need a proper 12 documentation. You have to have a proper documentation 13 like a transfer document. 14 And I -- 15 MS. STEEL: Store to store, what kind of thing 16 is proper document? 17 You write little note and you return it. They 18 own -- both brothers own those stores. I mean, what's 19 -- and then did you see this -- the invoice here that 20 they bought it and they paid taxes? 21 MS. MASH: I've seen the invoices, yes. And 22 those are the Fast and Easy No. 4 invoices. 23 MS. STEEL: Yeah. 24 MS. MASH: And they show the same type of 25 product as the type of product that was seized from Palm 26 Bluffs. 27 But I -- but we don't -- we haven't seen 28 anything that shows that they're the exact same product 10 1 and that's why we need some sort of a transfer 2 documentation. 3 And this is the first I've heard of any sort of 4 a memo or anything that even resembled transfer 5 documentation. 6 MS. STEEL: Okay. Let's go back to that 7 invoice -- this invoice that it was similar, you said, 8 but it's not exact? 9 MS. MASH: Correct. There's no way to tell 10 that it's the exact same document, the exact same 11 product, unless the transfer was documented when one 12 store decided to transfer the product to the other 13 store. 14 MS. STEEL: Okay. 15 MS. MASH: It's a similar type of product. 16 MS. STEEL: This invoice that what we seized, 17 that's the merchandise exactly same in here, right? 18 MS. MASH: It's the same type of product. 19 MS. STEEL: Yeah. Okay, what does that mean, 20 "same type of product"? 21 MS. MASH: Because we don't know that it's the 22 exact same three boxes that were taken from the store. 23 MS. STEEL: Do you think when they -- the 24 companies that they are giving out invoices, they write 25 it down exact product? 26 It's -- depends on the companies that they 27 write it down. So, it's -- it could be same product. 28 MS. MASH: It could be. 11 1 MS. STEEL: So, it's not same kind, but it is 2 the same products but you don't know it's exact that 3 product or not? 4 MS. MASH: That's correct. 5 MS. STEEL: That what you are saying? 6 MS. MASH: Yes. 7 MS. STEEL: Okay. So, when you -- they said 8 they're going to bring it and with a little note. 9 Why you didn't even want to look at it? I 10 mean, not you, but why auditor didn't want to look at 11 it, investigator? 12 MS. MASH: Well -- 13 MR. SMITH: I never heard that there was an 14 attempt to provide a transfer document. 15 And I'm wondering if Investigations knew of 16 this? 17 MR. EDWARDS: Based on the Statement of Facts, 18 staff had asked the taxpayer to fax the invoices to the 19 store and they said they could do not do so. 20 I do not have -- no record in the Statement of 21 Facts where they offered to go get that invoice or of a 22 transfer document. 23 MS. STEEL: So, you think this taxpayer is 24 lying then? 25 MR. EDWARDS: Well, all's I know is he stated 26 that he sold 20 -- or he sold one box of the type of 27 product that we seized a week at the other. 28 When staff contacted the vendors for the 12 1 purchases of that store, there was a total of seven 2 boxes purchased over a 20-week period. 3 MS. STEEL: Okay. But they had three boxes in 4 the store that when we seized them there was three 5 boxes. So, that has nothing to do with it during 20 6 weeks period, that doesn't mean much, other than what 7 they had and what kind of invoices they had. 8 MR. EDWARDS: They're saying that they would 9 have sold 20 boxes over a period when they only 10 purchased seven boxes, yet they could take two of those 11 boxes to the other store. 12 MS. STEEL: They have might have more invoices 13 then for those. 14 MR. EDWARDS: We checked with the vendors that 15 they told us. 16 The vendors told us how much they had 17 purchased, how much they had sold. 18 MS. STEEL: Within 20 weeks period how many 19 boxes did you buy? 20 MR. VIKRAM VOHRA: Okay. 21 MS. STEEL: Same stuff? 22 MR. VIKRAM VOHRA; I do have other invoices, 23 ma'am, which have the other product, which is buy one, 24 get one free on the cigars, the same product, same 25 material, everything. 26 And we did tell them, like if they wanted to 27 see those invoices but they did not request those 28 invoices. 13 1 It is in my opening brief too. Like we do have 2 those invoices, I do have it with me. 3 If you want, I can pass it to you guys and you 4 guys can take a look on it. 5 MS. STEEL: Okay. Do you think you can bring 6 your other documents that you transferred? 7 How you do that? Because you have six, 8 seven -- six -- five, six stores? 9 MR. VINAY VOHRA: Ma'am, can I say something? 10 MS. STEEL: Sure, just quick. 11 MR. VINAY VOHRA: Honestly, they are doing 12 their duties. They're very nice. 13 MS. STEEL: You cannot say that here. 14 MR. VINAY VOHRA: I'm sorry. I did not mean 15 it. I mean I tried to be honest with you. 16 All we are saying like we are in this business 17 from 12 years, we never even have a single violation. 18 MS. STEEL: I understand that. 19 MR. VINAY VOHRA: We take care of our business, 20 just like you take -- anybody will take care of the 21 charge. 22 We opened the new store. He did it, but I 23 praise god that I am not saying anything wrong. We ran 24 out of the product and when your employee called that we 25 ran out of product, this one at this store, if you are 26 at that store can, you bring it? 27 Yes, we brought it from there. 28 MS. STEEL. Right, when you bring it, what you 14 1 do? 2 MR. VINAY VOHRA: He just write it down like 3 example I just give you, one example. 4 MS. STEEL: So, can you bring that document 5 here? 6 MR. VINAY VOHRA: Ma'am, okay, can I say 7 something? 8 Example, you are two sisters and you have two 9 stores. You brought one stuff over there and you just 10 write it down roughly, "I brought these stuff in $105 11 cigars." 12 And whenever delivery will come there, you just 13 get it back there. That's all. 14 MS. STEEL: I totally understand. 15 I totally understand that. 16 MR. VINAY VOHRA: Yes, ma'am. 17 MS. STEEL: Just my question is, can you bring 18 that documents that you had and tried to show them? 19 MR. VIKRAM VOHRA: It's just a plain piece of 20 paper, ma'am, it's not a proper document. 21 MS. STEEL: Then when investigator asked you to 22 fax it from another store why you couldn't do it? 23 MR. VIKRAM VOHRA: I told them we don't have a 24 fax over there. If they can give me half an hour, if 25 they wanted to drive with me, that's what my exactly 26 wording. 27 MR. VINAY VOHRA: Exactly wording 28 (unintelligible). 15 1 MR. VIKRAM VOHRA: Like if he want to, you 2 know, drive with me, you can go in my car. We can go 3 there together. We pick up that document. And I can 4 show it to you guys. 5 MS. STEEL: That's reasonable. 6 MR. VIKRAM VORHA: Yeah, we're -- 7 MR. VINAY VOHRA: $100, ma'am, we never do 8 that. 9 MR. VIKRAM VOHRA: And we are not -- like some 10 of the invoices I wanted to show it to the Board Members 11 and it has like the bulk -- like, you know, the bulk 12 quantities what we bought, if you buy one, get one free, 13 the same items. 14 If you guys wanted to take a look on that? 15 MR. HORTON: Mr. Runner? 16 MR. RUNNER: Quick question on -- on -- again I 17 think you might -- you can go ahead and have a seat. 18 MR. VIKRAM VOHRA: Yes. 19 MR. RUNNER: I think you are getting hung up on 20 this word "document." I think all they're looking for 21 is the piece of paper. 22 MR. VIKRAM VOHRA: Piece of paper, yes. 23 MR. RUNNER: That's all. 24 MR. VIKRAM VOHRA: Yes. 25 MR. RUNNER: That would be -- that would be 26 your document. 27 MR. VIKRAM VOHRA: Yes, sir, piece of the paper 28 is document. 16 1 MR. RUNNER: And, so, if you have that -- let 2 me make it clear what I'm hearing is that you had -- you 3 did not have that piece of paper at the store where 4 these -- where these -- this tobacco product was seized? 5 MR. VIKRAM VOHRA: No, sir, I had -- 6 MR. RUNNER: You had that document back at the 7 store -- 8 MR. VIKRAM VOHRA: Yes. 9 MR. RUNNER: -- where it is that -- where it is 10 that these -- this tobacco product came from? 11 MR. VIKRAM VORHA: Came from, yes. 12 MR. RUNNER: Okay. 13 MR. VIKRAM VOHRA: We always, you know, hang it 14 up over there on the wall. 15 MR. RUNNER: Okay. 16 MR. VIKRAM VOHRA: So, we don't lose it. 17 MR. RUNNER: So, you put down in your transfer 18 two -- 19 MR. VIKRAM VOHRA: Yes. 20 MR. RUNNER: -- three boxes, whatever? 21 MR. VIKRAM VOHRA: Yes, sir. 22 MR. RUNNER: Let me ask to the Department, the 23 documentation, does the location of the documentation 24 make a difference? 25 If you have the documentation that the transfer 26 was done and you have it over here at this store that 27 says you -- that you transferred it to this other store, 28 does it -- is it clear that that documentation has to be 17 1 held in the store that the tobacco product is in? 2 Or where -- or is that documentation okay where 3 the tobacco product came from? 4 MR. EDWARDS: Well, we would recommend that it 5 be at the store where it was -- 6 MR. RUNNER: That's not what I asked. 7 MR. EDWARDS: -- transferred to. 8 MR. RUNNER: I didn't ask what you recommend. 9 I asked what -- what -- 10 MR. EDWARDS: We ask for it to be at the 11 store -- 12 MR. RUNNER: -- and is that -- 13 MR. EDWARDS: -- where it's located. 14 MR. RUNNER: Is that by rule? Statute? What? 15 What is it that says that documentation can't be at the 16 place to where they transferred the product from? 17 MR. EDWARDS: There are no rules or 18 regulations -- 19 MR. RUNNER: Okay. 20 MR. EDWARDS: -- regarding that. 21 MR. RUNNER: Okay. 22 MR. EDWARDS: Under the -- 23 MR. RUNNER: Okay. 24 MR. EDWARDS: -- well, under the statute it 25 says that all tobacco products, basically in the store, 26 have to have that store's license number on it. 27 MR. RUNNER: Except -- except there is a 28 provision -- 18 1 MR. EDWARDS: It doesn't, it doesn't say -- 2 MR. RUNNER: -- there's no provision for -- 3 MR. EDWARDS: No. 4 MR. RUNNER: -- for transfer -- 5 MR. EDWARDS: No, there's not. 6 MR. RUNNER: -- of property. 7 MR. EDWARDS: No, there's not. 8 MR. RUNNER: But we allow it? 9 MR. EDWARDS: Administratively, we have allowed 10 it with -- 11 MR. RUNNER: Okay. Then we -- by practice, we 12 allow it to take place, right? 13 MR. EDWARDS: On occasions, if there's proper 14 documentation -- 15 MR. RUNNER: Okay. 16 MR. EDWARDS: -- maintained at both locations. 17 MR. RUNNER: And, so, it would be up for some 18 discussion whether or not proper documentation includes 19 the document at the store that it was held at or the 20 store to which it came from, that would be 21 documentation. 22 Now, we can discuss whether or not it was good, 23 acceptable documentation or whatever, but it would be -- 24 it would be, indeed, documentation. 25 MR. SMITH: Yes. 26 MR. EDWARDS: It would some documentation. 27 MR. RUNNER: Okay. Let me go back over here. 28 Do you -- so, you -- you had that over there 19 1 and you offered to go get it? 2 MR. VIKRAM VORHA: Yes, I offered to get that 3 one and as well I offered to get the invoice. 4 MR. RUNNER: Do we have -- is there any -- 5 MR. VIKRAM VORHA: Invoices too. 6 MR. RUNNER: From the Department, is there 7 anything that any -- in terms of the record, any issue 8 that says that the taxpayer offered to go get the 9 information? 10 MR. EDWARDS: I have no record of that. 11 MR. RUNNER: Okay. And then you said -- you 12 said -- you further said, that they said, "Can you fax 13 it?" 14 You said, "We don't have a fax machine. I can 15 go get it in 30 minutes."? 16 MR. VIKRAM VOHRA: Yes, they don't have a fax 17 machine at that location either and at the Palm Bluffs 18 Liquor. 19 MR. RUNNER: That helps me understand, at least 20 the basic situation. 21 MR. VIKRAM VOHRA: Yes. 22 MR. RUNNER: Let me -- I'm going to follow up 23 on a broader issue, that is, at some point in time I 24 need somebody to come and meet with me in my office to 25 help us understand how much this costs taxpayers to 26 spend 100 -- this $180 that we're spending and how much 27 taxpayer dollars were spent trying to deal with this 28 particular $108 -- $180 worth of product -- 20 1 MR. VIKRAM VOHRA: Yes. 2 MR. RUNNER: -- in this process? 3 That's not your issue, that's our issue. 4 MR. VIKRAM VOHRA: Okay. 5 MR. RUNNER: And, so, maybe you can -- whoever 6 is the right person to come and help me understand that, 7 we would be glad to have that appointment because it 8 just frustrates me that we've had time after time after 9 time these discussions for $100, for $50, for $180 in 10 this process. 11 MS. STEEL: When you get caught for second 12 time, their license has been suspended. 13 MR. RUNNER: I didn't -- 14 MR. HORTON: Members? 15 MR. RUNNER: -- I just need to -- I need to 16 have that discussion. 17 MS. STEEL: Okay. 18 MR. HORTON: Ms. Steel? 19 MS. STEEL: No, I'm done. 20 MR. HORTON: Ms. Yee? 21 MS. YEE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 22 I guess to follow on Senator Runner's point, I 23 hate to say this, but the legislature did this to us. 24 And this is probably one of the areas of -- one 25 of the program areas within this Board that has some of 26 the most stringent requirements and there is not a lot 27 of latitude that the staff can exercise in this area. 28 But on the issue -- and I appreciate the staff 21 1 recognizing that transfers do occur of products, 2 particularly when there are stores in close proximity to 3 one another and that we are trying to administratively 4 recognize that and look for the proper documentation. 5 Let me just ask, though, in developing kind of 6 a policy about this administratively, are we kind of 7 letting retailers know about this? And is there 8 consistency in the policy, particularly around questions 9 about where the documents ought to reside relative to 10 the product and -- et cetera? 11 MR. SMITH: Beginning last summer, my 12 understanding is that the Special Taxes Department 13 started informing all new licensees about this. 14 Further, Investigations tells people in the 15 field. And, further, we are working on revising -- it's 16 a pamphlet with some more information about this topic. 17 And we've kicked around whether this might be a 18 good area for rulemaking. 19 MS. YEE: Okay. So, last summer was really the 20 first attempt that we ever tried to make to get our arms 21 around this transfer practice? 22 MR. SMITH: I think Investigations has been 23 informing people for longer. 24 MS. YEE: Okay. 25 MR. SMITH: We're hearing more allegations of 26 this recently than we used to also. 27 MS. YEE: I can imagine why, yeah. 28 Okay, I'll leave my questions there. 22 1 Thank you. 2 MR. HORTON: Okay. Is there further 3 discussion? 4 MR. RENNA: Sure. Can we make one last 5 comment? 6 I'm sorry. 7 MR. HORTON: Things are maybe going your way. 8 Any further discussion? 9 Hearing none, Members, I feel a little 10 compelled to sort of share the essence of the intent. 11 As we looked at illegal sales of tobacco, not 12 to say that is the case here, but in controlling that, 13 one illegal cigarette on the street creates a health 14 problem and is indicative of a much larger issue and 15 goes evidentiary information that has allowed the staff 16 to trace back to the original distribution manufacturing 17 and all of that activity. 18 This is a multiple millions of dollars -- an 19 understatement -- illegal products on the streets, 20 products being sold to children illegally. So, it's 21 directly connected to a whole lot of activity that the 22 legislature just was very, very much concerned about 23 having some control over. And, quite frankly, it has 24 been extremely effective. 25 To the extent that the Board can promulgate 26 gated regulations and rulemaking to provide some 27 clarity, I'm supportive of doing that. 28 Is there a motion? 23 1 MS. YEE: Move to take the matter under 2 submission. 3 MR. HORTON: Moved by Ms. Yee to take the 4 matter under submission. 5 Second by Ms. Mandel. 6 Without, objection, such will be the order. 7 Gentlemen, we will take your matter up for 8 discussion later on this evening and send you a written 9 notice of our decision. 10 Thank you. 11 MR. VINAY VOHRA: You want this, sir? What is 12 next one? 13 MR. VIKRAM VOHRA: You want to see the copies 14 of the additional purchase (unintelligible), the same 15 kind of -- 16 MR. HORTON: Provide it to Ms. Olson. We'd 17 love to take a look at it. 18 MR. VIKRAM VOHRA: Okay. 19 MR. HORTON: That would be very helpful. 20 MR. VINAY VOHRA: Can I -- can I say something, 21 just one thing? 22 MR. HORTON: The hearing is over, but -- 23 MR. VINAY VOHRA: Please, I -- I treat you guys 24 just like -- I don't want to say the word, like respect 25 very much. 26 MR. HORTON: Okay. 27 MR. VINAY VOHRA: If we are in this business, 28 sir, and we are clean from 13 years, when I there -- I 24 1 swear my son never did anything. 2 This is right you guys just put 15 days 3 suspension. But when we are right, why we will take it? 4 MR. HORTON: Thank you very much, sir. 5 MR. VINAY VOHRA: Thank you. 6 MR. HORTON: I think that was clear. 7 ---o0o--- 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 25 1 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE. 2 3 State of California ) 4 ) ss 5 County of Sacramento ) 6 7 I, JULI PRICE JACKSON, Hearing Reporter for the 8 California State Board of Equalization certify that on 9 FEBRUARY 23, 2011 I recorded verbatim, in shorthand, to 10 the best of my ability, the proceedings in the 11 above-entitled hearing; that I transcribed the shorthand 12 writing into typewriting; and that the preceding pages 1 13 through 25 constitute a complete and accurate 14 transcription of the shorthand writing. 15 16 Dated: March 8, 2011 17 18 19 ____________________________ 20 JULI PRICE JACKSON 21 Hearing Reporter 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 26