1 BEFORE THE CALIFORNIA STATE BOARD OF EQUALIZATION 2 450 N STREET 3 SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 4 5 6 7 REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT 8 APRIL 13, 2010 9 10 PUBLIC HEARING 11 F2 BUSINESS TAXPAYERS' BILL OF RIGHTS HEARINGS 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 Reported by: Juli Price Jackson 22 No. CSR 5214 23 24 25 26 27 28 1 1 2 P R E S E N T 3 4 For the Board Betty T. Yee of Equalization: Chair 5 Jerome E. Horton 6 Vice-Chair 7 Barbara Alby Acting Member 8 Michelle Steel 9 Member 10 Marcy Jo Mandel Appearing for John 11 Chiang, State Controller (per 12 Government Code Section 7.9) 13 Diane G. Olson 14 Chief, Board Proceedings Division 15 16 17 ---oOo--- 18 19 Todd Gilman Taxpayer Rights 20 Advocate 21 22 Jeff McGuire Stephen Rudd 23 Sales and Use Tax Department 24 25 ---o0o--- 26 27 28 2 1 INDEX OF SPEAKERS 2 ---o0o--- 3 Name Page 4 Lynn Freer 5 5 Gina Rodriquez 9 6 William Connell 23 7 8 ---o0o--- 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 3 1 450 N STREET 2 SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 3 APRIL 13, 2010 4 ---oOo--- 5 MS. YEE: Next item. 6 MS. OLSON: Our next item is F2, Business 7 Taxes -- excuse me, Business Taxpayers' Bill Of Rights 8 Hearings. 9 MS. YEE: Okay. 10 MR. GILMAN: Good afternoon, Madam Chair and 11 Members of the Board. Todd Gilman, Taxpayers' Rights 12 Advocate. 13 This is the Business Taxpayers' Bill of Rights 14 hearing for Sacramento. Individuals have the 15 opportunity to present their ideas, concerns and 16 recommendations regarding legislation, the quality of 17 agency services and other related areas of the Board of 18 Equalization administration of tax programs, including 19 sales and use tax, environmental fees, fuel taxes, 20 excise taxes and problems identified in the Taxpayers' 21 Rights Annual Report. 22 Our first two speakers are Miss Lynn Freer, 23 President of Spidell Publishing and accompanying her is 24 Ms. Gina Rodriquez, editor or Spidell Publishing. 25 MS. YEE: Thank you, Mr. Gilman. Good 26 afternoon. 27 MS. FREER: Good afternoon. 28 MS. YEE: You'll each introduce yourselves for 4 1 the record and you each have three minutes. 2 MS. FREER: I'm Lynn Freer, President of 3 Spidell Publishing. 4 MS. RODRIQUEZ: Gina Rodriquez, Sacramento 5 editor for Spidell Publishing. 6 Thank you. 7 MS. YEE: Please proceed. 8 ---o0o--- 9 LYNN FREER 10 ---o0o--- 11 MS. FREER: Thank you. I'm here today to see 12 that we get use tax filing and registration to work in 13 the State of California. 14 I am kind of here to request a rehearing. On 15 March 24th the Board declined to pursue legislation of a 16 law to change the due date on use tax returns and 17 provide interest relief or penalty relief for taxpayers. 18 We've only had a couple, two or three weeks, 19 since then, but in the tax filing season, that's a lot 20 of tax returns being filed. So, I have some additional 21 information and, basically, a plea to again review this 22 issue. 23 Just as a background, Speidel's efforts to 24 educate the tax professional community has included fall 25 tax update, where we spoke to over 20,000 tax 26 professionals. We had a webinar on March 19th with 450 27 connections and 2 to 3,000 participants in the webinar, 28 resulted in over 90 questions from tax practitioners 5 1 about -- mostly about how to register because they were 2 still unclear. 3 We would like to thank the staff at the BOE, 4 who we have worked tirelessly with, and they have been 5 very, very helpful with all of the issues that our 6 people keep coming up with. 7 Each month in our newsletter we have a story 8 about use tax and trying to educate people about the 9 misconception that use tax is a tax that is due, that 10 has been in the law forever and, yes, you have to pay 11 it. And we're trying to make this easier. 12 But some of the problems that we're 13 encountering still are that folks who should have 14 received letters, should register, did not receive 15 letters. Some of them who received letters, should not 16 have. 17 The April 15th due date is very difficult for 18 taxpayers and practitioners because of the time required 19 to find old information. This bill wasn't enacted until 20 August of last year. And the Board of Equalization had 21 the difficult task, monumental task, of trying to get 22 everything put together for this program so that it 23 actually would work. 24 We had -- they had a lack of time to adequately 25 train customer service and local staff offices to answer 26 questions. Taxpayers have trouble getting information 27 together. Tax professionals have trouble digging 28 through, sorting through their clients, trying to figure 6 1 out who owes and who doesn't or who should register and 2 who should not. 3 On top of that, we have fiscal year filers who 4 may not file tax returns until later in the year. One 5 of the things that we feel would be very good would be a 6 change in the due date of the return. For a couple of 7 reasons, we think this is a very -- would be a good 8 policy decision. 9 First, it simplifies the process for taxpayers 10 who file income and franchise tax returns and use tax at 11 the same time. That would increase the likelihood of 12 filing. 13 To have them file one return that's due in 14 April and another return that's due in June gives them 15 two different sets of records to keep and that's very -- 16 that's difficult and burdensome on the taxpayers. 17 Also putting -- spreading the filing season out 18 would reduce the costs for Board of Equalization by 19 spreading that processing out throughout the year and 20 getting returns in -- in throughout the year rather than 21 all in one big lump sum. 22 It also would show the taxpayers if the Board 23 of Equalization were to support legislation, that the 24 Board of Equalization wants to help taxpayers meet their 25 obligations. We are committed to helping people to file 26 and pay their use tax returns. And we just want to make 27 it easier for them. 28 We also would like to request that legislation 7 1 include penalty abatement, automatic penalty abatement 2 for the first year. 3 MS. OLSON: Time has expired. 4 MS. FREER: This would give taxpayers with 5 small penalties would not have to request abatement. 6 In conclusion, I have a number of war stories 7 from taxpayers, I will just give you one of them. 8 MS. YEE: Do you have them in writing? 9 MS. FREER: Pardon me? 10 MS. YEE: Do you have them in writing? 11 MS. RODRIQUEZ: We can provide them. 12 MS. FREER: Yes, I can provide them. 13 MS. YEE: You can submit them to Mr. Gilman. 14 MS. FREER: I will. 15 The one I received yesterday was is there a 16 method of registering online for SBOE use tax account? 17 This is on April 12th. And they want to know how to 18 register. 19 You can't register online. You can't register 20 by telephone. 21 So, these are situations that the Board is 22 working really hard, the staff it is working really 23 hard. 24 We just want to make it easy and more painless 25 for taxpayers. 26 Thank you very much. 27 MS. YEE: Thank you, very much, Ms. Freer. 28 Ms. Rodriquez, you have -- 8 1 ---o0o--- 2 GINA RODRIQUEZ 3 ---o0o--- 4 MS. RODRIQUEZ: Thank you, Madam Chair, 5 Members. 6 I just want to talk about communication with 7 tax professionals and some improvements that I think can 8 be made. 9 MS. YEE: Can you pull the microphone right in 10 front of you, please? 11 MS. RODRIQUEZ: Yes. As the use tax 12 registration law has shown us, it is imperative that B 13 of E partner with tax professionals in new ways -- in 14 ways they've not traditionally partnered with us before. 15 First and foremost, if you want to hear 16 suggestions and comments from tax professionals or 17 concerns about ways to improve B of E tax 18 administration, then you might consider holding this 19 annual hearing at a time when tax professionals can, 20 participate, namely not two days before the April 15th 21 tax return deadline. 22 Second, it would be beneficial if the B of E 23 broadened their communication base and outreach efforts 24 to computerized tax processors and software developers 25 who are, in fact, an integral part of the tax 26 professional community. 27 When legislation was enacted in 2003 requiring 28 the FTB to add a use tax line to their tax returns, I 9 1 urged staff to communicate with members of the National 2 Association of Computerized Tax Processors. 3 The NACTP is a nonprofit association that 4 represents tax processing software and hardware 5 developers, e-filing processors, tax forms publishers 6 and tax processing -- tax processing bureaus. I gave 7 the B of E contact information for the FTB's substitute 8 forms program so they could see how their sister agency 9 communicates with members of the NACTP. And my hope was 10 to insure that tax software would be in place and be 11 user friendly enough to encourage compliance for use tax 12 reporting for both professionally and self-prepared FTB 13 returns. 14 When legislation was enacted last year 15 requiring B of E to implement a use tax registration 16 program, I once again urged staff to open the lines of 17 communications with members of the NACTP. 18 As we were writing our seminar material in 19 October of 2009, I did contact one of the largest tax 20 prep software programs that professionals use and that 21 at that time they had no idea about the new law, no idea 22 about the program. And it was simply too late to 23 incorporate anything into their California tax prep 24 software at that time. 25 Right now the B of E lists just two service 26 providers on their website. The FTB lists about 65 27 software providers on their website. 28 Finally, I just want to say that both the 10 1 California Society of Enrolled Agents and the California 2 Society of CPAs, they hold annual liaison meetings with 3 California's three primary tax agencies. Both the FTB 4 and the EDD have 15 to 20 of their top management 5 participating in these meetings, including the FTB 6 Executive Officer and the EDD Deputy Director of the Tax 7 Branch. 8 The -- I have been attending these meetings for 9 about 19 years and the B of E typically just sends two 10 people to these meetings. So -- and while these two 11 people provide quality presentations, it does not give 12 tax professionals the chance to meet B of E management, 13 nor does it give B of E management the chance to meet 14 tax professionals and hear firsthand their concerns. 15 So, if the B of E could just devote a few hours 16 of time to these annual meetings, I think the benefits 17 would be enormous and we just might hear some 18 suggestions and ideas that would improve California's 19 business climate. 20 Thank you. 21 MS. YEE: Thank you very much, Ms. Rodriquez. 22 Questions, Members? 23 Mr. Gilman-- I'm sorry, Mr. Horton? 24 MR. HORTON: Yeah, a couple questions. 25 Just, you know, I'm a little uncomfortable with 26 the characterization that Board of Equalization did not 27 want to seek legislation. 28 I think all of the Members expressed their 11 1 support of legislation, but directed individuals to 2 discuss that with the appropriate body, being the 3 legislature and -- which would have more expedient. 4 And it is my understanding that the legislature 5 is intending, in particular Member -- I can't recall his 6 name -- is intending to introduce legislation. So, I'm 7 presuming that you're in communications with them. 8 The legislation itself only provides a 9 procedural process of reporting what is arguably due. 10 And knowledge over the years since the inception of the 11 use tax law should have resonated or have been absorbed 12 over the years through a number of processes, including 13 studying for your CPA license, taking the courses at the 14 various different universities. So, I don't think there 15 is a lack of knowledge of the use tax liability or the 16 fact that it is due. 17 And there is several procedures in which 18 individuals can actually report that tax. So, the 19 accumulation of the records in order to report and 20 support the liability should have been an ongoing thing 21 for a number of years. The passage of the legislation 22 provides another method in which to report your use tax 23 liability. 24 So, even though I'm supportive because of the 25 misunderstanding and probably because of the outreach 26 efforts, to no fault of the Board of Equalization, of 27 course, is this is a new animal, this is just a number 28 of taxpayers out there that we just simply didn't have 12 1 the database in order to be able to provide them the 2 information. 3 I think they've done a yeoman's job, 4 considering the response and the efforts and so forth. 5 The hearing, whether or not the hearing is 6 available, if I'm not mistaken, there are two hearing 7 dates for the Taxpayers' Bill of Rights; is that 8 correct? 9 MR. GILMAN: That's correct. Our next one is 10 Culver City on June 15th. 11 MR. HORTON: Okay, so, ample enough time. 12 And if I'm not mistaken, the practitioners can 13 contact the Board of Equalization any day of the week to 14 share their input. And I think it would be acceptable. 15 I mean, I think the -- this agency is probably 16 one of the most responsive agencies around and 17 particularly the Taxpayers' Bill of Rights Department. 18 I see them everywhere where I go. And we certainly -- 19 just this past weekend they were at -- the past week 20 they were at event in Long Beach, the Long Beach City 21 College. And, so, they're available. They're 22 accessible. 23 And, so, I'm a little concerned about the 24 characterization of their availability as well. And the 25 California Society of CPAs, they certainly can contact 26 any Member of this Board. I want to make myself 27 available to them at any given time. I'm sure my 28 colleagues provide the same accessibility. I know that 13 1 the Executive Members of this organization provide the 2 same accessibility. The various branches that we have 3 throughout the State of California, they provide the 4 same accessibility. I can even call an auditor or 5 compliance person or walk into an office and share their 6 thoughts and that information will be communicated and 7 will eventually matriculate itself up to the appropriate 8 body. 9 So, in just this last month I think we all came 10 together and invited practitioners and taxpayers and 11 lobbyists to come meet our executives. And I don't know 12 how many individuals from the AICPA showed up, but the 13 opportunity was certainly there. 14 Whether or not there should be 2 or 16 or 17 15 members, I want to thank you for sharing that the two 16 that were there provided adequate amount of information. 17 That's our goal. Our goal is to provide information. 18 Access is certainly available. And I've personally been 19 at a number of these events. I think in the short time 20 that I've been on board, I've been to a total -- a 21 significant number of events in my District and, quite 22 frankly, you go, you make a presentation, you hang 23 around for a couple of hours and you may get it three or 24 four questions at the end of the day. 25 So, I think the interest is dealing directly 26 with the Board of Equalization. The Board provides that 27 accessibility. And this organization extremely 28 accountable and extremely responsive. So, it may not 14 1 have been the intent, but certainly the characterization 2 of the organization is a little concerning, to say the 3 least. 4 MS. YEE: Mr. Horton, let me add a couple of 5 thoughts to your comments. 6 I think we all share the same goal in terms of 7 just being sure that what this agency has been charged 8 with administering and implementing is done correctly, 9 successfully. We certainly want to ease the compliance 10 burden to the extent that we can, as much as we can. 11 And, as you know, with respect to the use tax 12 program, the legislature did enact a program, but as you 13 were speaking, particularly Ms. Freer, your comments, I 14 just felt like I wasn't even here last month when we 15 talked about this issue. 16 I think we really did try to accommodate all of 17 the concerns that were raised with respect to trying to 18 facilitate compliance, knowing that this is a very, very 19 challenging time for tax practitioners and tax 20 preparers. 21 And I think what the staff indicated in terms 22 of their willingness to be much more flexible than they 23 normally would be, given the recognition that the timing 24 and certainly the untenable timelines that were 25 contemplated in the legislation were going to pose 26 significant challenges. 27 So, I want to assure you that we're going to 28 continue along that path. My statement a month ago, or 15 1 at the last Board meeting about not pursuing 2 legislation, was really not to add more chaos to chaos. 3 And it was to really look at what we could do 4 administratively here and, I think you heard the 5 commitments that our staff made. We certainly, as 6 members of this board, are going to insure that those 7 commitments are carried out. 8 But the other thing I will say to you with 9 respect to communication, it is a two-way street. The 10 first time I heard about concerns with respect to 11 compliance with the AB18 was through our Communications 12 Office. I never got a phone call. I saw a barrage of 13 letters subsequently come in. I had no direct 14 communication with my office. 15 And I would hope that if there are concerns 16 like that and, frankly, by the time we had communication 17 come to us directly from some of the tax preparers, all 18 that time that you had been working with our 19 Communications Office we could have spent, maybe, 20 looking at legislation. So, I am particularly not happy 21 about that -- the way that that unfolded. 22 Having said that, I want to focus on two issues 23 that I think could be improved upon and I appreciate 24 Ms. Rodriquez bringing these to our attention. 25 I would like to ask Mr. Hirsig, and 26 particularly with the executive staff and our management 27 team to have more engagement with our professional 28 organizations. 16 1 I would like to have the ability to have 2 relationships established just so when these types of 3 issues do come up, we have a natural forum within which 4 to try to resolve some of those issues. 5 And, secondly, you have raised a pet peeve of 6 mine and that is the timing of the Taxpayer Bill of 7 Rights Hearings. This couldn't be a worse time to have 8 a hearing, I recognize that. And I know there reasons 9 for why we schedule them this way, but I really think 10 that we would have much more fuller input to 11 Mr. Horton's point that input can happen and occur 12 during any time of the year, but certainly for the 13 public process I would like to encourage Mr. Gilman 14 re-visiting the timing of these hearings again to where 15 it's just -- I'd like to have more lead time in terms of 16 letting our taxpaying constituencies know about the 17 hearings, certainly not have it occur at a time when 18 everyone's feeling tremendous stress. And whatever we 19 need to do to accommodate that, I would ask that you 20 re-visit that. 21 Thank you. 22 MS. ALBY: Madam Chair? 23 MS. YEE: Ms. Alby? 24 MS. ALBY: If I may, I'd like to add a little 25 PS to both Members who have spoken and two weeks ago was 26 my first meeting as an Acting Board Member and I was 27 greatly encouraged at the commitment from the Board 28 Members, across the aisle, all of us, as well as staff 17 1 to make sure that we do what we can for taxpayers 2 getting caught in this, because we've all heard from 3 them. 4 And I was surprised at how eager this board was 5 and staff to do all they can to abate those penalties 6 for people who are not informed of this measure. 7 We do not make the laws here. We apply them 8 with mercy. And I hope we are merciful, as much as we 9 can be. 10 And I just wanted to say on the record that I 11 am very impressed with the response of the Board and the 12 staff regarding this issue two weeks ago. 13 MS. YEE: Thank you, Ms. Alby. 14 Other comments, Members? 15 MS. STEEL: Just one. 16 MS. YEE: Ms. Steel -- 17 MS. STEEL: How long it takes to register 18 online for use tax, do you know, Mr. Gilman? 19 MR. GILMAN: You know, I don't know offhand. 20 But we have Mr. Jeff McGuire here as well as Mr. Stephen 21 Rudd. So, if they're available -- 22 MS. STEEL: Well, they have only two days to 23 make their own -- 24 MR. MC GUIRE: Hi, I'm Jeff McGuire with the 25 Sales and Use Tax Department. 26 To clarify it, we actually don't have an online 27 registration process -- 28 MS. STEEL: We don't? 18 1 MR. MC GUIRE: -- for the use tax registration. 2 We actually don't have that for any of our programs. 3 It's still a paper process where you actually need to 4 submit a form. 5 But all of our district offices are aware of 6 rush now, especially getting within two days of the due 7 date. And the last couple of weeks we've asked them to 8 give priority to anyone that comes for the use tax 9 registrations and assist them on the spot with e-filing 10 their returns because they can e-file using the PC 11 kiosks that we have in all of our field offices. 12 It's a streamlined registration form that we 13 have specifically for this program that requires much 14 less information than our normal application. And we're 15 doing everything we can to try to assist people as best 16 we can right now. But we realize we're kind of late in 17 the game right now. 18 MS. STEEL: That's going to be trouble. 19 MS. YEE: But -- 20 MS. STEEL: Well -- 21 MS. YEE: -- but I think part of what we talked 22 about at the last Board meeting is that we recognize all 23 these limitations. And, so, to the extent that -- and I 24 know those who can are going to make every good faith 25 effort to, you know, obviously, meet the due date, but 26 we also there are extenuating circumstances given the 27 time of year for that to happen. So, I don't want 28 anyone to panic. 19 1 MS. RODRIQUEZ: I think, if I may, Madam Chair, 2 many practitioners are waiting until after April 15th. 3 MS. YEE: Yes. 4 MS. RODRIQUEZ: And I think we talked about 5 that on March 24th. 6 MS. YEE: Yes. 7 MS. RODRIQUEZ: I think part of our frustration 8 is we did have -- there were two bills introduced and 9 part of our frustration is we've been unable to get 10 staff to help us technically because of the last Board 11 meeting there was the decision that you weren't going to 12 pursue legislation. 13 So, I think we're really asking for support in 14 helping to insure that bills are technically correct. 15 MS. YEE: But the -- I mean, your proposing 16 legislation at this juncture suggests to me that the 17 process that we had laid out during our last Board 18 meeting is not satisfactory? 19 MS. RODRIQUEZ: It's a one time fix, the 20 last -- this would be a permanent fix, the legislation 21 would permanently fix the due date and align it with FTB 22 returns for extensions. 23 MS. YEE: Okay. 24 MS. RODRIQUEZ: And the one time fix in the 25 bill would be automatic penalty relief versus taxpayers 26 having to file a piece of paper after they get the bill 27 from the Board. 28 MS. YEE: Okay. Mr. Horton? 20 1 MR. HORTON: Madam Chair, you know, whether the 2 Board or individuals of the Board ultimately agree with 3 the legislation, I think -- still think it's incumbent 4 upon the agency to provide the technical support -- 5 MS. RODRIQUEZ: Thank you. 6 MR. HORTON: -- when legislation is 7 introduced. 8 But, again, my presumption is that they are -- 9 my office just heard of the legislation, both pieces, 10 this week. And my understanding was is that it was in 11 spot bill form and that the actual language had not been 12 developed for the legislation. 13 And this -- that was -- strike that. That was 14 Monday, yesterday -- yeah, interesting, wow, time does 15 pass when you're sitting up here -- I feel like I've 16 been up here for days. 17 But, at any rate, so, we just heard of it 18 yesterday. And when we heard about it, we were told 19 that the entire language was not there. There was 20 generic language and that Leg Council had not provided a 21 complete assessment. 22 And, so, I don't know if there's sufficient 23 enough information for the Board to assist -- or time. 24 But certainly, as the Board has always done, we -- I 25 would certainly support us participating in providing 26 technical support to those in the legislature, as well 27 as yourself, who is interested in providing and 28 introducing legislation. 21 1 MS. YEE: Let me echo that. I think that to 2 the extent that we get a request from a member of the 3 legislature for technical assistance -- and I would urge 4 you to use that process for requesting such 5 assistance -- our Legislative Division, in concert with 6 the affected departments, are, obviously, available to 7 provide that technical assistance. 8 Because we are talking about this specific 9 program, I think whatever does get drafted and is 10 pursued relative to legislation, Mr. Horton, I would ask 11 that we see those proposals agendized in your 12 Legislative Committee for discussion. 13 MR. HORTON: Sure. 14 MS. YEE: Okay. 15 MS. RODRIQUEZ: Thank you. 16 MS. FREER: And I would just like to one more 17 time echo that we have found your staff has been 18 extremely proactive and extremely concerned about making 19 this program run. 20 And if we should have contacted -- my Member is 21 Ms. Steel -- if we should have contacted her, then I am 22 remiss. In the future I certainly won't do that. 23 But I do have to compliment your staff, they've 24 just been wonderful with the completely overwhelming 25 task. 26 MS. RODRIQUEZ: They took good care of us. 27 MS. FREER: And as a taxpayer, I file an 28 extension every year and I have -- I have a fiscal year 22 1 return. And to do two different sets of recordkeeping 2 is very burdensome. 3 So, I'm coming here not as a tax professional 4 and not as a publisher, but as a taxpayer and I think 5 that that's what I'm looking for in terms of, you know, 6 I you folks will work on the penalty issue, a permanent 7 fix needs to be align the due dates so that it makes it 8 easier for taxpayers. 9 MS. YEE: Sure, okay, very well. 10 Other questions, Members? 11 Mr. Gilman, any further comments? 12 MR. GILMAN: No, none that I can think of. 13 Thank you. 14 MS. RODRIQUEZ: Thank you very much. 15 MS. YEE: Thank you both very much. 16 MS. FREER: Thank you. 17 MS. YEE: Thank you, Mr. McGuire. 18 MR. GILMAN: Thank you. 19 Our next speaker is Mr. William Connell. 20 Mr. Connell, please? 21 ---o0o--- 22 WILLIAM CONNELL 23 ---o0o--- 24 MR. CONNELL: Good afternoon. 25 MS. YEE: Good afternoon. 26 MR. CONNELL: I'll try to be brief. It's 5, 6, 27 700 signatures asking you guys to return the veteran 28 illegally taken tax money from us. Mr. Gilman, you can 23 1 have those (indicating). 2 Here is resolution 1364 with the great seal of 3 the Senate on it. Paragraph 7, Senate Bill 809 updates 4 a State bill established in 1872 and insures the veteran 5 who sells wares on the street are exempt from collecting 6 sales tax. 7 Under no situation is Senate Bill 809 a new 8 bill. It is an updating of an existing veteran's 9 statute. 10 I have instructed my attorney, Herb Fox, and 11 the Attorney General's -- and to advise the Attorney 12 General office to completely dismiss my action against 13 the State of California. 14 And I made clear the release is being done. 15 Now I was offered $200 and a release of my liens. I 16 refused that. Then I was offered $5,000. I refused 17 that. Then I was offered 10,000, I refused that. The 18 figure's 12,500 and I refused that also. 19 One of the reasons I've refused it is that 20 there are additional veterans situated the way I am. I 21 will make sure that all of those veterans request their 22 refunds also. 23 As I have just come from the Legislative Day of 24 the American Legion, which is being held today, 25 coincidentally. 26 I am upset it's taken this long for me to get 27 my money returned to me. I did a very good job of 28 bringing a unanimous legislative statute in front of the 24 1 Board, that was the original statute, 1872, unanimous. 2 Senate Bill 809, 188 to zero, unanimous statute 3 clarifying that the veteran is -- who -- the disabled 4 American veteran who sells wares on the street is tax 5 exempt. 6 Right now I have into this -- you guys have 7 taken over $31,000 in my money, my tax money, plus 8 interest. At this point it's $15,000 in legal fees and 9 climbing. It's $10,000 of out of pocket. 10 Last time I was front of you I wanted a measure 11 of justice. One attorney contacted the State Attorney 12 General and I have 56,000 plus interest. 13 My attorney said, "Please give Mr. Connell his 14 $50,000 and we're done, finished with." 15 What's going on? The reason I first got here 16 is because a State employee couldn't read a State 17 enactment correctly. The reason I'm here now is that a 18 State Attorney General can't do addition correctly. If 19 you can't read and you can't do addition, that's not 20 good government. 21 Now I've been very respectful. I've been very 22 diligent. I've contained myself. And I openly state 23 for the record, a settlement with me is easy, give me 24 what I've spent, give me what was illegally taken from 25 me. 26 MS. OLSON: Time has expired. 27 MR. CONNELL: Do so with the other veterans 28 also. 25 1 You need to hear from them. The American 2 Legion and the Department of Veterans Affairs have 3 promised me that they'll get these veterans back in 4 front of you so that they can each and every one of them 5 be taken care of -- should have never taken the tax 6 money in the beginning, even to begin with. 7 I am clear. I gave you some submissions. I 8 believe you've heard from some people, maybe you've 9 gotten some phone calls. I don't want this to go on any 10 further. 11 I've had some very ill health over this. I 12 want to move on with my life. I've told you that. Pay 13 me what I am owed, make sure you take care of the other 14 disabled American veterans. 15 Be clear on this. Senate Bill 809 is an -- is 16 a new law that supports an existing statute. That's the 17 only way it's a new law. It's an updating of an 18 original act. Don't let anybody say any different. 19 Now I apologize to everybody before about 20 saying how I believe some treasonous comments were made 21 and all, I stick by that. I'm a gentleman here. I want 22 what I want and what I am entitled to. 23 That was very brief, very quick. I'm listening 24 to you guys, I wouldn't want one of your jobs. You guys 25 have a really tough, tough thing in front of you and a 26 lot of issues. 27 This is a simple issue. There were mistakes 28 made. You could avoid my Board hearings. You avoid the 26 1 other veterans Board hearings, combine us all in one -- 2 save a lot of taxpayers a lot of money there. 3 Untrustworthy, openly false and misinformation 4 and misleading information was contained in my hearings 5 and those other Board hearings for the other veterans. 6 Bring me in front of you, it takes five minutes. 7 The law is what the law is. It says what it 8 says. It means what it says. 9 There is about 5, 600 signatures there. A lot 10 of those people wanted to come up here with me today. I 11 told them no. I've held off, I've held off. I've 12 wanted to be interviewed by the LA Times, I've held off 13 on it. They wanted me in Studio City with Fox News, 14 they want to know when am I going to get my money back? 15 I said that I am fully confident in this State Board. 16 There were mistakes made, there were terrible 17 mistakes made about the disabled American veteran. I 18 will let you know, it's going on 18 years now I'm 19 arguing this -- 18 years. I don't spend 18 years of my 20 life if I'm wrong. 21 Thank you very much and I respect all of you 22 for the job you do. 23 MS. YEE: Thank you, Mr. Connell. 24 Questions or comments? 25 Thank you. 26 Next matter, Mr. Gilman? 27 MR. GILMAN: Thank you. 28 Madam Chair, if I may, with your permission, if 27 1 there are any other speakers out in the audience that 2 would like to like come forward and make a comment at 3 the Taxpayers' Bill of Rights hearing? 4 MS. YEE: Okay. Are there other speakers who 5 wish to make comments during the Business Taxes Taxpayer 6 Bill of Rights hearing? 7 Okay. 8 MR. GILMAN: Thank you. Real quick -- 9 MS. YEE: Hang on one second, are you coming 10 forward, sir? 11 MR. GILMAN: It's the next -- the next hearing. 12 MS. YEE: Okay, all right. 13 MR. GILMAN: I'm going to wrap up some stuff 14 real quick. 15 MS. YEE: Okay. 16 MR. GILMAN: Okay, a couple letters that were 17 submitted for submission -- Mr. Bob Handy, representing 18 the Veterans United For Truth, Incorporated in regards 19 to Mr. Connell's issue, as well as Mr. Paul Wright, 20 representing Carpinteria Valley Chamber of Commerce. 21 That concludes the Business Taxes Taxpayers' 22 Bill of Rights hearing. 23 ---o0o--- 24 25 26 27 28 28 1 . 2 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE 3 4 State of California ) 5 ) ss 6 County of Sacramento ) 7 8 I, JULI PRICE JACKSON, Hearing Reporter for the 9 California State Board of Equalization certify that on 10 wares I recorded verbatim, in shorthand, to the best of 11 my ability, the proceedings in the above-entitled 12 hearing; that I transcribed the shorthand writing into 13 typewriting; and that the preceding pages 1 through 28 14 constitute a complete and accurate transcription of the 15 shorthand writing. 16 17 Dated: June 5, 2010 18 19 20 ____________________________ 21 JULI PRICE JACKSON 22 Hearing Reporter 23 24 25 26 27 28 29