1 BEFORE THE CALIFORNIA STATE BOARD OF EQUALIZATION 2 450 N STREET 3 SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 4 5 6 7 REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT 8 JANUARY 27, 2010 9 10 OTHER ADMINISTRATIVE MATTERS 11 ITEM P1.1.4 12 CULVER CITY BOARD MEETING COSTS 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 Reported by: Juli Price Jackson 22 No. CSR 5214 23 24 25 26 27 28 1 1 2 P R E S E N T 3 4 For the Board Betty T. Yee of Equalization: Chair 5 Jerome E. Horton 6 Vice-Chair 7 Bill Leonard Member 8 Michelle Steel 9 Member 10 Marcy Jo Mandel Appearing for John 11 Chiang, State Controller (per Government Code 12 Section 7.9) 13 Diane G. Olson Chief, Board 14 Proceedings Division 15 16 17 ---oOo--- 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 2 1 450 N STREET 2 SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 3 4 JANUARY 27, 2010 5 ---oOo--- 6 MS. YEE: Our next item? 7 MR. HIRSIG: Madam Chair, Members, at the -- 8 this item relates to the Culver City Board meeting 9 costs. 10 And the Board, on September 1st, asked Board 11 Proceedings to bring back to the Members the cost 12 analysis of our Culver City meetings. That cost 13 analysis was provided December 31st of this year and was 14 also an attachment. 15 By way of highlights, in 2008 the cost of the 16 four meetings in Culver City was about $89,000. In 17 2009, four meetings were held at a cost of about 18 $122,000. 19 Much of the cost increase was attributable to 20 the shift from just audio streaming to video streaming 21 and there was a substantial cost associated with the 22 video streaming because the equipment down in Southern 23 California is not owned by the BOE. 24 Members also asked what about video 25 conferencing? Is that an option? And currently we 26 don't have that ability. But I do know that Anita Gore 27 and her staff, this is their area of expertise has 28 looked at that as well as the audio and video streaming. 3 1 So, if you have any particularly technical 2 questions with regards to that, we'd be happy to ask 3 them. 4 MS. YEE: I actually have some questions on the 5 audio video streaming. 6 MR. HIRSIG: Sure. 7 MS. YEE: I think other -- my colleagues do. 8 Okay. 9 Ms. Steel? 10 MS. STEEL: Well, you know, I was comparing to 11 this that it seems like audio -- we changed from Culver 12 City meeting from video to audio, it's going to save 13 about 6400 each meeting? 14 MS. GORE: It would save substantially, it 15 would save about 6,000 per meeting. 16 MS. STEEL: 6,000. 17 MS. GORE: There is still a cost associated 18 with the audio. 19 MS. STEEL: Audio? 20 MS. GORE: But it's far less than the video. 21 MS. STEEL: Why don't we just have audio 22 program in Culver City, try to save this money? 23 Because I didn't know that Culver City cost 24 much, much more than Sacramento meetings. 25 But we have to have Culver City meetings for 26 Southern California people. So, I suggest that, you 27 know, we going to just cut down to audio only. 28 Is that possible to do it? 4 1 MS. YEE: Members -- so, just looking at audio 2 streaming the meetings in Culver City versus video? 3 MS. STEEL: Uh-huh. 4 MS. YEE: Any thoughts on that? 5 Mr. Leonard? 6 MR. LEONARD: I find our lease cost to be 7 really excessive. I would think that's a very 8 competitive market for that kind of equipment in the LA 9 basin. 10 I don't know how we got it -- whether it was a 11 General Services bid or what -- but I -- I'm -- 12 Ms. Steel's point is at that kind of cost, you start 13 looking at cutting back services, which I really hate to 14 do. 15 And I would hope before we make that decision 16 that we're sure that there is not some other kind of 17 arrangement we can't make for that equipment. 18 And it also strikes me that -- well, two 19 directions -- one is could we -- could we buy the 20 equipment and use it for our video conferencing with 21 Appeals conferences that we're working on, that we -- 22 that we use it every day of the week for that, and then 23 when we're down there once a quarter, that we -- that we 24 make it a really large Appeals conference-type format? 25 Or what -- you know, you mentioned Skype, 26 Mr. Hirsig is -- I don't know what kind of -- what the 27 actual elements of the cost are, whether the cost is the 28 transmission or the cost is in the hardware itself? 5 1 And that if it is the hardware that we're 2 leasing and having to remount every time, maybe there's 3 a cheaper way to do it, just putting a web cam on a 4 tripod and pointing it? 5 MS. GORE: We could look at purchasing our own 6 equipment and we could have a substantial savings and 7 recover the cost of the purchase within the first year. 8 And that would reduce the video streaming and bring it 9 down to about $3,000. 10 What you pay for is the actual stream and the 11 archiving. And I believe that one of the largest, 12 biggest values in the video streaming is having the 13 archive available. 14 While we have hundreds of people who watch the 15 ongoing live streaming, we have many, many more hits on 16 the archive, where people go back and listen again or 17 look for other information that they might have missed. 18 So, there is value in that. And that would be one way 19 to cut the ongoing regular costs. 20 We would not recommend leaving the equipment 21 down there, for security reasons mainly, because that 22 room is used for -- for many other purposes. So, we 23 would still have an ongoing shipping cost of about 24 $3,000 a year. But that would be substantially less 25 than what we pay the contractor now to ship in the 26 equipment for each meeting. 27 MS. STEEL: How about negotiation with other 28 companies that -- can you find something that -- you 6 1 know, some cheaper deal? 2 MS. GORE: The contract is due to go out to 3 bid, I believe, later this year. So -- 4 MS. STEEL: So, we already have a contract with 5 them? 6 MS. GORE: We do. We have an ongoing contract, 7 but it will come up for renewal. 8 And at that time the scope of work -- 9 MS. STEEL: How much is going to be costing 10 when -- buy own equipment that's it's going to maybe 11 future use for video conferencing? 12 MS. GORE: We're actually working on a separate 13 pilot with that and are looking at very cost effective 14 ways to make some video conferencing work. 15 We're working with the Technology Services 16 Division and Admin on that effort. And this -- because 17 you want high resolution and high end equipment for 18 something that's being archived into posterity and 19 you're going to have ongoing need to look back at it, 20 the equipment needs are little bit different than for 21 video conferencing. 22 So, I would like to suggest that we would 23 continue on two separate tracks there. But the 24 equipment that we bought to ship down there for each 25 Culver City meeting could be used for other meetings. 26 For example, the assessors' meeting that you go 27 to and have your meeting, we could ship in our own 28 equipment and do that ourselves. And other meetings 7 1 that you would have up and down the state anywhere, we 2 could -- we could take the equipment and use it there. 3 So, it would be versatile. 4 MS. YEE: I actually, over the long term, would 5 like to see some video conferencing capability to just 6 take down travel costs as well. 7 It will be a different kind of experience, 8 certainly for Petitioners and Appellants that come 9 before the Board, but I think what's embedded in some of 10 these costs is also things like, you know, shipping 11 documents and records and files. 12 And I mean, it just makes me nervous that that 13 stuff just kind of gets moved around as much as it does. 14 But I really would like to just kind of see us 15 move a little bit more in the 21st century as it relates 16 to our meetings. 17 And I really want to bring these travel costs 18 down. I mean, there's a lot of extraneous kind of 19 expenses associated with just travel and movement of 20 documents. 21 MS. GORE: We are working on the video 22 conferencing aspect on a different track. And, I think, 23 perhaps, it might be helpful to bring whatever 24 information we have on that to the next Board meeting 25 and outline for you the kinds of things that we're 26 looking at in terms of that. 27 MS. YEE: I would appreciate that because here 28 is what I am thinking, I mean, I don't think, for 8 1 example, as much as I like have all of the resources 2 there, whether it be the Taxpayer Rights Advocate, 3 whether it be, you know, any of our attorneys that need 4 to come down on a particular matter, that's all travel. 5 And, frankly, our agendas now are such that, 6 you know, we have a great deal of dropoff, there's a lot 7 of, you know, kind of wasted time as we agendize these 8 Board meetings. But we're traveling anyway. 9 If we didn't have to travel and just could go 10 to a near location where we could be video conferenced 11 in, I think we could actually save some money. 12 But trying to manage these Board agendas has 13 been very, very challenging with respect to having full 14 days. And we're kind of getting more and more away from 15 our ability to be able to schedule full days given a 16 number of factors. 17 So, I just want to look at that as a long-term 18 solution. 19 Yes? 20 MS. MANDEL: Since you sort of mentioned travel 21 and what goes into the component of travel, it's my 22 understanding that this analysis which is attached, 23 which you can't necessarily tell from the memo, if I -- 24 although I maybe haven't read the memo recently -- it's 25 my understanding that the travel expense total includes 26 numbers for FTB, which FTB -- 27 MS. OLSON: That is correct. I included FTB's, 28 their average cost is $3700 per meeting. 9 1 MS. MANDEL: -- yeah. So, if you're thinking 2 this is BOE, you know, costs, it's not all BOE costs. 3 And I think that the member offices are 4 probably not in this. But the FTB number is, which 5 really pumps -- you know, pumps it up. 6 Because I -- when I first saw this, I was like, 7 how many people of staff are going down? 8 Because, you know, I do a lot of travel. So, 9 I'm like, wait -- wait a minute. 10 But it includes the FTB. 11 MS. YEE: All right. 12 Well, can we marry the examination of the video 13 conferencing capacity to kind of this discussion -- 14 MR. LEONARD: Madam Chair? 15 MS. YEE: -- around Board meetings? 16 Yes, Mr. Leonard? 17 MR. LEONARD: Just -- not to interrupt you, but 18 I just wanted to jump in on the comment about a concern 19 about the security of the equipment that we buy. 20 How close is your office, Mr. Horton? 21 Just want to know? 22 MR. HORTON: Monterey Park. 23 MR. LEONARD: I mean, I could put it in my 24 truck and just drive it in. 25 MR. HORTON: In my facility -- 26 MR. LEONARD: I mean, could we ask the 27 administrator of the Culver City office to lock it in 28 the office and -- 10 1 MS. GORE: We could. 2 MR. LEONARD: I mean -- 3 MS. GORE: I am sure there are many options. 4 MR. LEONARD: I understand the risk of leaving 5 the equipment in the room when different customers use 6 it and don't know what it is and -- 7 MS. GORE: And the back area, where the 8 controls would be -- 9 MR. LEONARD: Everybody -- 10 MS. GORE: -- is a storeroom and people have 11 access to that and in and out. 12 One of the -- 13 MR. LEONARD: Yeah, I don't know how big all 14 this is, but you could also buy a locked cabinet in the 15 storeroom -- although that storeroom is pretty crowded 16 but -- or my office on the other side is near the door, 17 you can put a little cabinet in there. 18 MS. GORE: One of the advantages of having the 19 equipment on hand here at headquarters would be that we 20 could discharge it to wherever it needed to go to cover 21 any other sorts of meetings throughout the state as 22 well. 23 MR. LEONARD: Well, I'm -- okay. But, 24 ultimately, I'm hopeful that we're having -- offering 25 tele -- you know, video Appeals conferences everywhere 26 and basically more than one a day in different 27 locations. 28 So that we -- because we have more than one 11 1 conference holder on our staff that we can -- we could 2 ultimately offer that. 3 MS. GORE: Right. And that is what is on the 4 separate track other than video streaming the Board 5 meetings, that we will make a presentation on next 6 meeting. 7 MR. LEONARD: Okay. Thank you, Madam Chair. 8 MS. YEE: Thank you, Mr. Leonard. 9 Other thoughts, Members? 10 MR. LEONARD: My truck is still available. 11 It's kind of full, but still available. 12 MS. MANDEL: We have -- we have an office 13 that's right up the street from there, but I -- you 14 know, I can't speak for -- I don't spend time in that 15 office any more. 16 MR. LEONARD: The Controller wouldn't charge us 17 much, would he? 18 MS. YEE: So -- 19 MS. MANDEL: And I did ask -- you know, when -- 20 I am not sure when the contract goes out to bid, but, 21 you know, since I've been doing these other boards over 22 the last year, some of them, I think, just have the 23 audio streaming, probably the ones out of the 24 Treasurer's office, but the other boards, like State 25 Lands and OSHA Protection Council that I went to, they 26 do have a video webcasting and there's a contractor. 27 Now it's not as -- you know, it's a different 28 experience for the people in the room just because they 12 1 come and set up and there's a lot of wires. But I did 2 ask one of the boards, just out of curiosity, I asked 3 the Executive Director if he knew what the average cost 4 was for a day -- and their days don't necessarily go as 5 long as ours, but sometimes, you know, they start at 10 6 and sometimes they go kind of all day and he gave me a 7 25 -- like 2,000 to $4,500 a day. And that's a company 8 that comes in. 9 But again, you know, it depends what you get 10 with your bid. 11 MS. GORE: Right. And the $6400 cost is Culver 12 City, it's much cheaper to video stream from here. 13 MS. MANDEL: Yeah. 14 MS. STEEL: Well, another -- another thing is 15 that we used to have audio only. So, I want to just 16 hear that -- you know, what's the pros and cons? 17 And video sounds good and it looks good, but at 18 the same time, that people -- those hundreds of people 19 who listening to this Board's, you know, hearings are 20 mostly tax attorneys and somebody who is related to this 21 business. 22 So, in -- I just wanted to see some pros and 23 cons about that, you know, we going to get rid of video 24 side in Culver City too, if we can save some money, I 25 think. 26 And then I can volunteer my office too, you 27 know, take the equipment -- 28 MR. LEONARD: Your office? 13 1 MS. STEEL: -- yeah. And you can bring it back 2 and forth if we really need it. 3 MR. HORTON: Madam Chair? 4 MS. YEE: Mr. Horton? 5 MR. HORTON: I mean, there is storage 6 facilities within a half a block away. I think it's -- 7 I don't know, $100 a month or something for the use of 8 the facility. 9 We might want to take a look -- we might want 10 to have a conversation Time Warner, which is also 11 located just around the corner from the Culver City 12 office. And I know they have a public access channel 13 that they make available. 14 I don't know if they would be interested, but I 15 certainly think we ought to have that conversation, see 16 if they are, considering the infrequency in which we're 17 there. 18 In fact, they may actually be excited about an 19 opportunity, you know, CNN, Time Warner, Board of 20 Equalization -- might be good thing for them. They 21 might do it free. 22 So, just a recommendation. 23 MS. YEE: I guess along those lines, do we 24 have, Ms. Gore, any sense of what the inventory of 25 capacity is among State agencies and departments for 26 audio/video streaming, video conferencing -- 27 MS. GORE: I haven't done that. 28 MS. YEE: -- ability? 14 1 I actually recently have been involved with the 2 Census Complete Count Committee and the Governor's 3 office has this wonderful video conferencing system 4 that's portable, that's not fully utilized and it gets 5 great reception between Los Angeles, San Francisco and 6 Sacramento. 7 And I'd love to explore and see where we've got 8 systems like that out there that aren't being fully 9 utilized that we might be able to tap into. 10 MR. LEONARD: Or rent his once a quarter? 11 MS. YEE: What's that? 12 MR. LEONARD: Can we rent the Governor's once a 13 quarter? 14 MR. HORTON: Rent? 15 MS. YEE: I think it's worth asking. 16 MR. HORTON: He'll give it -- I think General 17 Services probably controls that equipment and might just 18 make it available to us, so -- 19 MR. LEONARD: Good question. 20 MS. YEE: Thank you. 21 Thank you, Miss Gore. 22 ---o0o--- 23 24 25 26 27 28 15 1 . 2 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE 3 4 State of California ) 5 ) ss 6 County of Sacramento ) 7 8 I, JULI PRICE JACKSON, Hearing Reporter for the 9 California State Board of Equalization certify that on 10 JANUARY 27, 2010 I recorded verbatim, in shorthand, to 11 the best of my ability, the proceedings in the 12 above-entitled hearing; that I transcribed the shorthand 13 writing into typewriting; and that the preceding pages 1 14 through 15 constitute a complete and accurate 15 transcription of the shorthand writing. 16 17 Dated: MARCH 15, 2010 18 19 20 ____________________________ 21 JULI PRICE JACKSON 22 Hearing Reporter 23 24 25 26 27 28 16