1 BEFORE THE CALIFORNIA STATE BOARD OF EQUALIZATION 2 450 N STREET 3 SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 4 5 6 7 REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT 8 NOVEMBER 18, 2009 9 10 11 12 PUBLIC COMMENT 13 WILLIAM CONNELL 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 Reported by: Juli Price Jackson 21 No. CSR 5214 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 1 1 2 P R E S E N T 3 4 For the Board Betty T. Yee of Equalization: Chair 5 Jerome E. Horton 6 Vice-Chair 7 Bill Leonard Member 8 Michelle Steel 9 Member 10 Marcy Jo Mandel Appearing for John 11 Chiang, State Controller (per Government Code 12 Section 7.9) 13 Diane G. Olson Chief, Board 14 Proceedings Division 15 16 17 ---oOo--- 18 19 20 Public Speaker: William Connell 21 22 ---o0o--- 23 24 25 26 27 28 2 1 450 N STREET 2 SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 3 NOVEMBER 18, 2009 4 ---oOo--- 5 MS. YEE: Good morning. Let's call today's 6 Board of Equalization meeting to order. 7 Ms. Olson? 8 MS. OLSON: Our first item on the agenda is a 9 public speaker, Mr. William Connell. 10 MS. YEE: Mr. Connell, please come forward. 11 MR. CONNELL: Good morning. I hope everybody's 12 over the flu. 13 I'm here to talk about a veterans' tax 14 exemption issue. And I have some brief comments and 15 I'll try and let you guys get on with the good work you 16 all do. 17 First of all, thank you all for supporting the 18 Senate bill. 19 Second of all, I'm here today to just let 20 everybody know that nothing bad's going to happen. You 21 guys did the right thing by the veterans. So did the 22 Senate -- 100 percent, without any no vote. They're 23 still checking to see if that's a record. 24 When I came here in front of the Board and 25 wrote my first letter about 17 years ago, I brought 26 forth a State law that was unanimously passed by our 27 legislators. This year, unanimously passed again for 28 clarification. 3 1 Exemption statutes, as I found, are held 2 strictly against the taxpayer. I don't know how much 3 closer or how stricter I could be. I followed 4 everyone's direction to the letter. And I'm very -- I 5 just want to recap. I'm not going to be long. 6 1999, legislation was suggested 3-4 to amend 7 the veterans' law. My efforts to kill that suggestion 8 were successful. 9 2003, decision to amend the veterans' exemption 10 was enrolled and I was successful in defeating that 11 also. 12 2006, they tried to amend it again and I was 13 personally successful in defeating that one. 14 In 2008 another amendment was put forth. 15 That's four different times that the 16 legislative Pandora's box was opened -- four times. The 17 last time I thought it had merit that you would issue 18 all of the veterans a free license. So, I was 19 successful in making that a stand alone bill. The 20 author, instead of amending the 16102, which I stood 21 firmly on, put another bill in. 22 So, these attempts to amend the veterans' 23 exemption to fit the tax lawyers' interpretation were 24 quite trying and very expensive for me. 25 Settlement's going to take place on this issue 26 for myself and all the other similarly-situated 27 veterans. I want you guys to do something that is very, 28 very compact, cost effective and would solve this whole 4 1 problem and I can move on. 2 As I had suggested and for reasons put forth, 3 I'd like you to void my previous Board hearings. I 4 would like you to combine my case with other 5 similarly-situated veterans cases that were denied this 6 benefit. You can make one decision, one day, and we'll 7 move on from there. 8 In July of 2008 I put forth paperwork so that 9 you guys will have a structure to, I guess, rules and 10 regulations for the veterans. We were going to wait 11 until all of the balls dropped and see where everything 12 lays out. You have it in front of you. It's been a 13 year and a half, like you do, do whatever you have to do 14 to administratively and move forward with that. 15 In closing, I wish to rescind by allegations of 16 misconduct and wrongdoing to all of those SBOE staff 17 members under these past 17 years or so. 18 And one last item before I ride off into the 19 sunset, I'm not a man to be laughed at. I'm not 20 dangerous. I'm not some sort of character. I'm not a 21 veteran who rides off into the sunset. And I'm not 22 someone who Patrick Myers -- I'd like him to answer me, 23 "How do you like me now?" 24 I took a lot of abuse, period. I'm not going 25 to be insulted by a here's a take it or leave it 26 settlement. I'm ready to sit down with other interested 27 parties and I'm ready to move on. I want to, badly. 28 You've kept me an indentured servant for 17 years. It's 5 1 about time I'm allowed up. 2 Here are some papers that will clarify 3 everything I've just said, including all of the letters 4 of support from every major fraternal veteran 5 organization in central California. 6 After I get done here I am going to take a 7 flight to Washington, D. C. to see if I can get the 8 veterans' tax exemption statute, that I worked so hard 9 on here in this state, put nationwide so we can get some 10 of our veterans who are returning back to work. 11 I have much respect for your office and the 12 hard work you do. But that's what you guys get paid the 13 big bucks. 14 I want to make sure that I have it in writing 15 from you guys that there was a mistake made. They 16 misread the law. They -- they didn't account for 17 commas. They didn't account for the intent of the 18 statute. And it's caused myself and countless other 19 veterans an awful lot. 20 I bore the burden. I'm -- I'm successful. Had 21 I not defeated those four amendments or attempts to 22 amend the veterans' tax law, the veterans' exemption 23 statute, I would lose. And all of the other veterans 24 would lose. 25 Now, if you have anything you'd like to say 26 or -- I just want these papers in the record. And I 27 want you to know that all you guys, this seated Board, 28 did the right thing. By far you did the right thing. 6 1 And now it's time for me to sit down 2 face-to-face with someone who's authorized to make a 3 settlement. I don't wish to hire all these lawyers. I 4 don't wish to continue and continue and try to chase 5 after my money. Wouldn't be fair and you know it 6 wouldn't be fair. 7 I'm looking at all you and I just want a 8 measure of justice. That's all I'm asking for -- not 9 that I am bankrupt estate, I'd like to get a credit 10 rating back. I'd like to have all these legal liens and 11 levies and all this other stuff -- get it off my record 12 and a letter of explanation. 13 Hey, look, I followed your directions to the 14 letter. I met personally with every single, solitary 15 legislator in this session, the previous session and the 16 session before that. 17 I walked that capitol, my footprints are all 18 over the hallways up there. And I would not take no for 19 an answer. I refused to lose. 20 Now it's time for me to get my money and move 21 on with my life. I'm looking for you guys -- I see we 22 have a new face on the Board here -- I am looking for a 23 measure of justice. That's all I'm looking for. 24 I want reimbursement for what I've had to go 25 through. I'd like you to tell my Assembly Member that 26 he does not have to -- he could take all of the papers 27 out of a drawer. I don't have a file, I have a full 28 drawer. I'd like you to be able to tell me I can take 7 1 the 12 boxes of legal papers that now take up a bedroom 2 of my home and I don't have to look at them any more. I 3 want to be done with this. 4 Now, I'm here, up in Sacramento. I can make 5 time all this week. I can be finished with this and so 6 can you. And you can -- in one fell swoop these 7 veterans that have come before you and come before you 8 and come before you, you can make what -- you can do the 9 right thing by everybody. You can be very efficient. 10 Look, I was told no, no, I can't win. I was 11 told 20,000 times, "You can't win." I don't accept 12 that. 13 You guys, you'll make your decision. You want 14 me to hang around for a couple of days, I will. We can 15 figure it out. Whatever you guys want me to do. 16 As you can probably know, I take direction 17 rather well. And go to -- go to great lengths to make 18 sure that I offer the proper respect to everybody. And 19 even though I haven't gotten it in the distant past, the 20 last few years have been like night and day. I don't 21 mind coming up here. I don't mind it, it's a pain, but 22 that's okay. 23 All my customers mind that I'm not there. I 24 get, "Billy, where are you? We're hungry." 25 So, I don't know, if anybody has any comments? 26 And I'm just very calm, very collected. 27 MR. LEONARD: Madam Chair? 28 MS. YEE: Mr. Leonard? 8 1 MR. LEONARD: Thank you, Madam Chair. 2 Mr. Connell, I want to thank you for 3 persistence, without you we wouldn't have gotten this 4 far to recognize veterans and to put meaning into the 5 law. 6 And I think you said it best at the start, that 7 the -- that the way the tax laws are written and 8 construed and implemented always seem to work against 9 the taxpayer. We've enacted Taxpayer Bill of Rights in 10 the last few decades, but it's still -- it's still 11 unbalanced, in my opinion. And you are a prime example 12 of that as it relates to you and your business and the 13 veterans that you represent. 14 So, I commend you for your service. 15 I think you've raised a good question in light 16 of the new law, we should -- through the Chair I'd like 17 to ask staff to prepare for us the status of 18 Mr. Connell's account and identify all other vendor 19 veterans who were similarly situated so we could get an 20 idea of what -- what the picture is before us that we -- 21 that we, hopefully, can make the decision to 22 retroactively clear some of these things up that have 23 lingered far too long. 24 MS. YEE: Okay. 25 MR. LEONARD: So, I'd make that request. 26 MS. YEE: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Leonard. 27 Let me just say also too, thank you, 28 Mr. Connell, for your tenacity and patience over the 9 1 years and really for championing the legislation that 2 was successfully enacted this year to help your 3 situation and that of other itinerant veterans and 4 disabled veterans. 5 I think we've got a couple of issues that have 6 been raised this morning. One as it relates to 7 Mr. Connell's specific situation, my understanding is 8 that there are separate discussions outside of this 9 Board that are in progress with respect to your 10 particular situation that I believe the Board does not 11 have authority to intervene in at this point. 12 And I am happy to legal come advise us 13 accordingly with respect to those discussions. 14 Secondly, with respect to other 15 similarly-situated veterans, I think -- I don't know 16 what that universe looks like. I would like to request 17 maybe staff help us get a sense of what that community 18 of taxpayers may look like that have a similar issue 19 that Mr. Connell has raised before us. 20 Mr. Lambert, can you give us a sense of the 21 status of Mr. Connell's case? 22 MR. LAMBERT: In a very limited sense, I can. 23 MS. YEE: Yes. 24 MR. LAMBERT: My name's Robert Lambert. I'm 25 Assistant Chief Counsel, Litigation Division. 26 This is a litigation matter. And some of -- 27 there have been some possible settlement discussions. 28 Those are all very privileged and very confidential. I 10 1 am really not comfortable discussing them in any detail 2 in open session. 3 Also, you know, the Deputy Attorney General, I 4 believe, had a phone conversation with Mr. Connell, 5 which he mentioned he has attorneys. There is a very 6 clear State Bar prohibition against discussions between 7 attorneys and the clients -- opposing clients and 8 things. So, I'm really not comfortable having a 9 face-to-face conversation -- plus the Deputy Attorney 10 General is not available. 11 We sent a letter. We can -- maybe there is 12 response in that material, we can take a look at that 13 and go from there. 14 But there's a way it's handled and that's the 15 way -- it's in the Court of Appeal now and I believe the 16 Appellant's opening brief was just filed and we have a 17 little bit of time. So, we'll proceed to handle it 18 appropriately in that context. 19 MR. CONNELL: I just want to be clear. I don't 20 have an attorney, I represent myself. 21 All of the work I've done over the years has 22 always been reviewed by different attorneys -- so that 23 my I's have always been dotted and my T's have always 24 been crossed. 25 I don't want to go out of procedure, I just 26 want to get done with this. And going through the 27 Appellate is not one of the ways I want to go. And I'm 28 very open to a measure of justice that is equitable. 11 1 That's all I want. 2 I am not an unreasonable individual, as you can 3 all assume. I just want what I spent and what was -- as 4 it turns out -- illegitimately taxed from me. So, I'm 5 not asking for the moon. You guys -- I know you are all 6 short money and everybody's screaming poverty and the 7 State has property, though, I know that. So, maybe 8 we'll get a veterans' home out of this deal or 9 something. I don't know. 10 But I'm not just doing this for me, I want 11 everybody very clear on this. I'm doing this for all of 12 those veterans who couldn't speak up, who didn't have 13 the means, who didn't have the gene in them that clicks 14 on when you think you are right and you are going to 15 fight for what you are right. I am not a passive 16 person, never have been. 17 MS. YEE: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Connell. 18 We wish you the best and thank you again for 19 leading the charge on the legislation this year. 20 MR. CONNELL: I can expect to be contacted 21 then? 22 MS. YEE: You are dealing with the Attorney 23 General's office at this point and, so, we are not able 24 to intervene as you pursue the matter with them. 25 MR. CONNELL: Regarding the voiding of my 26 previous hearings and those of the other veterans? 27 MS. YEE: That -- 28 MR. CONNELL: That's within your purview, I 12 1 believe? 2 MS. YEE: You have a appending litigation 3 matter, so, that's -- 4 MR. CONNELL: I could drop that right today. 5 MS. YEE: Well, we're -- 6 MR. CONNELL: I just want to get done with 7 this. 8 MS. YEE: We understand. 9 Mr. Horton? 10 MR. HORTON: Can I ask Legal just a 11 hypothetical question, not related to this case 12 necessarily? 13 MR. LEONARD: Mr. Lambert? 14 MR. LAMBERT: I am sorry? 15 MS. YEE: Mr. Horton has a question. 16 MR. LAMBERT: Certainly. 17 MR. HORTON: One question related somewhat to 18 the case -- and I understand if you can't answer. 19 Second question, more hypothetical than anything else. 20 The legislation -- I'm only asking because 21 as -- the legislation that was passed, does that have an 22 impact on the appeal? 23 MR. LAMBERT: Not directly, but it's 24 prospective only. So, the implication is the Board's 25 interpretation of the law prior to the date of the 26 legislation was consistent with the legislature's 27 understanding. 28 MR. HORTON: Okay. 13 1 Hypothetically speaking, if there is a -- if 2 there is an existing appeal and the -- and the appeal is 3 dropped and they're no longer pursuing that, does that 4 change anything relative to our ability to interact with 5 this hypothetical individual defendant? 6 MR. LAMBERT: Well, you are getting to the 7 question of the Board's jurisdiction to address matters. 8 If the Board issues a billing or has a permit 9 or there is interaction, if there is no permit, there is 10 no billing, there is no lien, then there is no lawsuit, 11 there is no interaction and nothing for the Board to do. 12 MR. HORTON: Okay. 13 MR. LAMBERT: Is that the question? 14 MR. HORTON: Yes. 15 MS. YEE: Thank you. 16 Mr. Leonard? 17 MR. LEONARD: Can we put this on the closed 18 session agenda, this litigation that's being referred 19 to? 20 MR. LAMBERT: Certainly. 21 MS. YEE: Yeah, we can schedule it for closed 22 session. 23 Thank you. 24 MR. CONNELL: Okay. 25 MS. YEE: Thank you, Mr. Connell. Please 26 continue to do the work that you are doing and resolving 27 your matter. 28 MR. CONNELL: I'll just take direction from 14 1 anybody who wants to give it to me. I don't want to -- 2 MS. OLSON: It would be December. 3 MS. YEE: That's correct, not for today, not 4 for this meeting. 5 MR. CONNELL: I have these final little papers 6 under file matters for all you guys. 7 MS. YEE: Okay. Do you want to submit them to 8 Board Proceedings? 9 MR. CONNELL: I just want them as part of my 10 file, you know. I don't think it's big enough, to tell 11 you the truth. 12 Thank you very much for your time and just 13 continue to do the good work. And don't ever forget our 14 veterans, you know. 15 I think that was part of all of the problem 16 here. And we would just take it for granted -- that's 17 my feeling. So -- by some, not by all. 18 Thank you very much for your time. 19 MS. YEE: Thank you, Mr. Connell. 20 ---o0o--- 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 15 1 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE 2 3 State of California ) 4 ) ss 5 County of Sacramento ) 6 7 I, JULI PRICE JACKSON, Hearing Reporter for the 8 California State Board of Equalization certify that on 9 NOVEMBER 18, 2009 I recorded verbatim, in shorthand, to 10 the best of my ability, the proceedings in the 11 above-entitled hearing; that I transcribed the shorthand 12 writing into typewriting; and that the preceding pages 1 13 through 15 constitute a complete and accurate 14 transcription of the shorthand writing. 15 16 Dated: December 2, 2009 17 18 19 ____________________________ 20 JULI PRICE JACKSON 21 Hearing Reporter 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 16