1 BEFORE THE CALIFORNIA STATE BOARD OF EQUALIZATION 2 450 N STREET 3 SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 4 5 6 7 REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT 8 CUSTOMER SERVICES AND ADMINISTRATIVE 9 EFFICIENCY COMMITTEE 10 AUGUST 31, 2009 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 Reported by: Juli Price Jackson 22 No. CSR 5214 23 24 25 26 27 28 1 1 2 P R E S E N T 3 4 For the Board Bill Leonard of Equalization: Chair 5 6 Steve Shea Acting Member 7 8 Betty T. Yee Member 9 Michelle Steel 10 Member 11 Marcy Jo Mandel Appearing for John 12 Chiang, State Controller (per Government Code 13 Section 7.9) 14 Diane G. Olson Chief, Board 15 Proceedings Division 16 17 18 ---oOo--- 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 2 1 450 N STREET 2 SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 3 AUGUST 31, 2009 4 ---oOo--- 5 MS. OLSON: Our next item on the agenda is 6 Customer Services and Administrative Efficiency 7 Committee. 8 Mr. Leonard is the Chair of this Committee. 9 Mr. Leonard? 10 MR. LEONARD: Good morning, Members. 11 As we look to the future and how we deal with 12 our budget, it struck me that we've got a wonderful 13 opportunity to implement and expand our online virtual 14 seminar program. And I wanted to update on our status 15 on that. 16 Other Members were also curious that we're 17 going to reach out through the internet technology and 18 be as good or better than we've been doing with our 19 face-to-face programs. 20 And, so, these two ladies will brief us. 21 Ms. Gore? 22 MS. GORE: Thank you. 23 Chairman, Members, I'm Anita Gore. I am the 24 Deputy Director of the External Affairs Department and 25 with me is Kari Hammond, who is the Chief of the 26 Outreach Services Division. 27 And as we worked to find ways to improve the 28 taxpayer experience at the BOE and to do more things 3 1 more efficiently, we're looking to create these online 2 opportunities for our taxpayers. Online tutorials and 3 virtual seminars are really where we are headed. 4 Outreach Services Division took the lead in 5 2008 at Board Member request in creating an online sales 6 and use tax tutorial that was completed in 2008. 7 There are four online tutorials already 8 available for taxpayers. They include sales and use 9 tax, property tax for nonprofit and exempt 10 organizations, sales and use tax for nonprofit and 11 exempt organizations and E-file video registering as an 12 E-client and filing an electronic return. These online 13 services have been created using in-house resources. 14 Our student in Web and Media Services, Ken Vaughn, who 15 is unable to be here today, produced a new property tax 16 tutorial that we are featuring here today. 17 And I do have a 90 second preview that will 18 appear on the screen for you now. 19 Video Speaker: 20 "Hello, my name is Brian Salmon. I'm a 21 property appraiser at the Board of Equalization 22 here in Sacramento. And I'd like to welcome 23 you to this presentation for nonprofits and 24 faith-based organizations. 25 When we refer to 'property,' we're speaking of 26 land, improvements to land, such as buildings 27 and other structures, and business personal 28 property. Some qualifying organizations 4 1 include religious organizations, charities, 2 museums, theaters, zoological associations, 3 open space preservation organizations. 4 Use of the property must be incidental with no 5 fundraising and the property owner should have 6 a copy of the group's tax exemption letter from 7 the Internal Revenue Service or Franchise Tax 8 Board for one or more of the following exempt 9 purposes: Religious, hospital, scientific. 10 Under, 'How do I?' Click 'Property Tax 11 Information.' Find 'Information About' and 12 click on 'Welfare and Veterans' Organizations 13 Exemptions.' 14 Finally, we want to take this opportunity to 15 express our appreciation for everything you do 16 for the citizens of California." 17 MR. LEONARD: I've never heard property tax 18 with a sound track. 19 It makes property tax kind of exciting, doesn't 20 it? 21 MS. GORE: It is exciting. It's exciting to 22 see the level of production that we can do internally, 23 given the resources. 24 And the actor in this did a particularly good 25 job. He is in the audience today. Brian Solomon is one 26 of our property tax appraisers. He also is one of the 27 speakers that go to the seminars and make these 28 presentations out in the public. 5 1 So, we're -- 2 MR. LEONARD: Brian, thank you very much. 3 Stand up, be recognized. Thanks very much. 4 MS. GORE: And this is the first in a series of 5 online seminars and tutorials that we'll be producing in 6 the next several months. 7 This particular one is 13 minutes long and will 8 be posted to our website and available to taxpayers at 9 some point shortly after today's meeting. 10 And as I stated, our student produced the 11 video. We have budget constraints that have caused to 12 us no longer have students, so, we will do what we can 13 within our resources to continue with the timeline that 14 we've given you and the tutorials that we have planned 15 for the coming year. Those include the enhanced sales 16 and use tax nonprofit virtual seminar, which is due to 17 be completed in the winter of 2009, the cigarette tax 18 virtual seminar is due to be completed in fall of 2009. 19 And we have a work plan for '09-10 that was 20 outlined in information and materials that you received 21 that includes a "How to Request a Seller's Permit," "How 22 to Close Your Seller's Permit," a restaurant seminar, an 23 enhanced sales and use tax tutorial adding audio, and 24 then three additional ones for 2010 that include the 25 agricultural seminar, both an RV seminar and aircraft 26 seminar. 27 And the work on these projects will be led by 28 the Outreach Services Division, in addition to the other 6 1 work that they do. 2 And we'll be happy to answer any questions that 3 you might have. 4 MR. LEONARD: Thank you. 5 Any questions? 6 Ms. Yee? 7 MS. YEE: Question and a comment. 8 Actually, more of first a comment, I just 9 wanted to thank Ms. Gore and Ms. Hammond and their staff 10 for really bringing us into the 21st century. I think 11 this definitely is the way to go and I think also as we 12 continue to transact business with our tax paying 13 public, it's, I think, become more of the expectation in 14 a terms of how we provide information to do business 15 with them. 16 MR. LEONARD: Yes. 17 MS. YEE: I guess just a suggestion, as our 18 budgets do continue to be tight -- and I know we've been 19 in touch in our district with some local community 20 colleges about students who could take advantage of 21 opportunities to get credit for perhaps doing work like 22 this and producing and helping with the production of 23 some of these seminars virtually, so, just a suggestion 24 there. 25 And, secondly, I'm very mindful of the budget 26 constraints and I think you, Mr. Leonard, and I, have 27 been -- I'm certainly the first one to cancel all of my 28 in-person seminars in my district, it is something that 7 1 I feel strongly about. I think certainly the perception 2 at this point in time, given our budget constraints and 3 having one stop shop resources and taking the time and 4 the money associated with putting on seminars, whether 5 it be cost for the venue, employees' time and not just 6 from our agency, but from other agencies really suggests 7 that we ought to be looking at devoting our own 8 resources to continuing to develop virtual seminars like 9 this. 10 And I'm not sure about what the other Members 11 are doing, but I am -- I don't want to, certainly, 12 impinge upon what Members believe is the best approach 13 to do outreach in their districts, but even if we're not 14 the lead agency in terms of bringing in-person seminars 15 out into the community, there still is a cost to it. 16 And I don't think it's something that would be wise -- a 17 wise use of resources right now. 18 I would love to see Ms. Hammond and her team 19 really focus more on developing more of these. And we 20 know what the public needs. We've been doing the 21 in-person seminars for years to really give us a good 22 feel for what the demand is. 23 So, I'd like to suggest that we not -- that we 24 halt all in-person seminars for at least the next fiscal 25 year and begin to devote those resources to further 26 development of these and, hopefully, get these online a 27 little bit sooner in the time frame. 28 MS. GORE: And, if that is the direction of the 8 1 Board we would be happy to do that. 2 MR. LEONARD: I certainly think it's a good 3 suggestion. 4 Have you looked at ways in making Ms. Yee's 5 idea work of promoting the virtual seminars for people 6 that don't know they exist? How do they find them? 7 And I understand if they knew what they're 8 looking for, they could find them, but if they don't 9 really know, are there they featured on the Governor's 10 website? Are they featured on taxes.gov? Or are we 11 getting the word out to tax professionals and others 12 regarding the availability? 13 MS. GORE: Minimally, at this point. As we 14 move forward to have more and more of these available, 15 we will be making the information more readily available 16 through the news media, through putting information on 17 other websites and tying in. We work closely with the 18 FTB and the IRS and EDD on the taxes.ca.gov website. 19 And the development there, we've started really 20 pushing all of our news releases through there and we 21 certainly can push all of the other outreach materials 22 that we have through that venue. And we'll look for 23 other opportunities as well. 24 MR. LEONARD: I think that's really necessary. 25 I mean, my district's so rural, I have not been 26 able to do a lot of seminars that I'd like to do because 27 the community, the media market, was just too small to 28 justify the time and money, even when we had money. Now 9 1 it's expanded to everybody in my district is going to 2 have to get this information virtually through our 3 resources. 4 And, to me, this is an excellent way to do it 5 if they know about it and know it exists. 6 MS. GORE: Right. 7 MR. LEONARD: Ms. Yee? 8 MS. YEE: Just I would not ignore also the good 9 relationships we've established over the years with a 10 lot of the trade associations and industries as well. 11 MR. LEONARD: That's right. 12 MS. YEE: I think certainly the California 13 Restaurant Association and Retailers. I know locally in 14 my district we have a number of different chapters of 15 those associations that are hungry for information along 16 these lines so that they can easily disseminate to their 17 members. So, they're very much looking forward to the 18 information that we're developing right now. 19 MR. LEONARD: We could prepare a link that we 20 could give to them to embed on their website, just a hot 21 button with a logo for our virtual seminars. 22 MS. YEE: Yeah. So, I'm not sure, 23 Mr. Chairman, what the appropriate mechanism is for, I 24 guess, trying to enact this policy, but -- unless there 25 is kind of objection to having in-person seminars. I 26 just think it's -- even it's at minimal cost -- and 27 we've certainly gotten feedback that, you know, just -- 28 just with seminars that we've not been involved in, but 10 1 where there's been a BOE presence, just the sheer volume 2 of paper and publications has kind of gotten a reaction 3 from the public about, you know, what are we doing with 4 our scarce resources? 5 So, I want to be sensitive to being sure we're 6 using those resources wisely. 7 MR. LEONARD: Members, the suggestion is that 8 we push in favor of the virtual seminars over the 9 face-to-face ones. 10 Any other comments on that? 11 Ms. Steel? 12 MS. STEEL: I agree with Chairwoman Betty. 13 Only thing is until this -- the -- you know, whatever we 14 call that, what we just saw -- 15 MS. YEE: Virtual seminars. 16 MS. STEEL: -- that has to be efficient enough 17 and we don't have any proof yet that, you know, that 18 people that can really go reach out. 19 We really have to teach people that, you know, 20 how to do the filing and stuff. So, yes, we have to be 21 very sensitive about the cost, but at the same time we 22 want to make sure that all of the public knows that, 23 you know, what we are doing and they have to really -- 24 we have to really reach out. 25 So, yes we going to be really careful how much 26 we're going to spend for outside seminars going out 27 there, but as soon as -- 28 MS. YEE: Yes. 11 1 MS. STEEL: -- as soon as this is -- this is 2 done and this is really efficient enough, we going to 3 really step back for our regular seminars. 4 MS. MANDEL: Mr. Leonard? 5 MR. LEONARD: Ms. Mandel? 6 MS. MANDEL: It's not clear to me if you're 7 looking for a vote or not but I'd abstain from a vote. 8 And one sort of additional comment, I think is 9 what Ms. Steel was getting at is, to the extent that 10 we -- although we're California and the home of high 11 tech, we might still have significant digital divide, 12 particularly with lot of permit holders. And I'm not 13 sure. And, so, to the extent that the majority of the 14 Board or to the extent that staff pulls back on 15 in-person seminars and no matter how they find to get 16 them as cheapie, cheapie and inexpensive as they can, I 17 would urge that the -- that you look at how to reach 18 those people, a significant number of whom may be our 19 taxpayers who would not have access to our virtual 20 seminars or, perhaps, even some of these places where 21 you might be contemplating links, because the -- the 22 front piece of insuring compliance, which helps save us 23 money on the back end -- that's the real purpose of the 24 seminars is to save money on the back end for taxpayers, 25 and the Board -- is the education process. So -- 26 MR. LEONARD: Exactly. 27 MS. MANDEL: -- I would just pick up on what I 28 think Ms. Steel was talking about, which is making sure 12 1 that people have access to the educational information 2 that they need to file and pay correctly. 3 MR. LEONARD: Certainly. And I know I am 4 trying to work with local communities that are putting 5 on their own seminars just to get us an access to that 6 with me or someone else as a speaker for free and bring 7 this program in, if nothing else. 8 You are exactly right, we want to make sure 9 everybody is still covered as best we can. 10 Mr. Shea? 11 MR. SHEA: Yes, Mr. Leonard. Given the 12 uncertainty about how far along the virtual program is, 13 even though, I think, it appears the Board Members 14 support moving in that direction, I wonder if it would 15 make sense to have Ms. Gore's unit prepare a staff 16 report trying to outline, you know, the types of 17 different seminars that the Members had put on most 18 commonly in their district over the past few years and 19 to what extent they can be replaced or substituted where 20 the program stands right now with virtual seminars so we 21 could get a better sense of, perhaps, the gaps in 22 outreach that might result from such a policy 23 inadvertently and maybe have -- develop something of a 24 timeline for this transition. 25 I'm wondering if that makes sense to do that? 26 MR. LEONARD: It does make sense. I was going 27 to suggest that we ask them to come back in some 28 reasonable period and give us the actual reports of hits 13 1 to the virtual seminar link and give some idea of 2 that -- that people know it's there, that it's growing 3 that we've been able to document it's being used, at 4 least, and make our best judgment as to whether that's 5 enough, we should do more or whether it's so much we 6 can -- we can cut back elsewhere or whether we need 7 everything and all of the time. 8 It's a suggestion. 9 MS. YEE: Can I add to that report? 10 I would also like to see the cost of the 11 in-person seminars that happen -- 12 MS. GORE: Okay, we can do that. 13 MS. YEE: -- or are conducted. 14 I appreciate all of the comments with respect 15 to the digital divide and the lack of, I guess, 16 completion of these virtual seminar offerings. 17 On the other hand, we're about to make some 18 pretty significant decisions about our own budget going 19 into tomorrow's Board meeting, and we've got to do 20 everything to cut back. 21 I am sorry, this is something that I feel like, 22 you know, with staff travel just to have one in-person 23 hit during the course of a year on the seminar rather 24 than having something that's web-based, that's a CD that 25 could be handed out, that we can continue to develop our 26 community relations with throughout the State -- we do 27 it in my own office. We have great relationships and 28 all of the counties in my office, even the remote areas, 14 1 and those are the relationships we're going to be 2 capitalizing on with respect to getting the virtual 3 seminars out. 4 I would like to see the cost, staff travel, as 5 well as the costs for the other agencies participating 6 in the seminars outlined. 7 MR. LEONARD: What's a good meeting date for 8 getting back to us? 9 MS. GORE: Well, we have some information 10 already available to us, so, we can put something 11 together in terms of a timeline and costs by 12 November and -- certainly. And we also, by that time, 13 can have at least an outline of a marketing plan for the 14 virtual seminars as more and more come online and how we 15 plan to roll them out to the public and get into those 16 more rural areas and districts and the types of 17 associations that we would be working with to get the 18 information available to people. 19 We do know that the sales and use tax tutorial 20 from April through July had almost 5000 hits on it. 21 It's the most looked at information. And as we move 22 forward with the how to get a permit, how to register 23 kinds of walk me through the process seminars, I believe 24 those will be very helpful to taxpayers and those are 25 planned for the coming year. 26 MR. LEONARD: I understand some of the things 27 we've asked for might not be available until November, 28 but sounds like some of that is all ready or closely 15 1 available. 2 Can you come book sooner? 3 MS. GORE: As much as I hate that to hear 4 this from other people, given the limited resources, 5 we'll do what we can. 6 MR. LEONARD: Okay, give me a date before 7 November. 8 MS. GORE: Before November, October 31st. 9 MR. LEONARD: Okay. Now, you're just being 10 scary. 11 I was thinking I'd like to hear you from 12 regularly at this committee and was thinking the end of 13 September Board meeting -- 14 MS. GORE: Okay. 15 MR. LEONARD: -- to tell you what you know, 16 what's happening. 17 And Ms. Yee points out, we're making budget 18 decisions, including this Board meeting, that will not 19 only impact these seminars, but may make them much more 20 important than they are now. And I don't want to wait 21 to November. 22 MS. GORE: Okay, we'll report back next month. 23 MS. STEEL: May I just say one thing? 24 MR. LEONARD: Yes, Ms. Steel? 25 MS. STEEL: How did you reach out to the 26 people? How did you make 5000 hits there for the 27 seminars? 28 MS. GORE: If it is on our website, people talk 16 1 about it when they go to seminars and things. 2 MS. YEE: And our district offices have been 3 referring taxpayers -- 4 MR. LEONARD: Right. 5 MS. YEE: -- there too. 6 MS. STEEL: How about those that, you know, 7 when you apply for permit that we give out packages and 8 we can put something in it there that I think that's 9 going to be great too. 10 MS. GORE: Absolutely. 11 MS. STEEL: People know exactly what they're 12 supposed to do. 13 MS. GORE: And we do have the Speakers Bureau 14 where when people call and ask for a speaker, Outreach 15 Services arranges for those people to go out. 16 And certainly every time a speaker goes to a 17 it, they should make note of the fact that we have 18 information available online for them. 19 MS. STEEL: Great job, thank you. 20 MS. GORE: Thank you. 21 MR. LEONARD: Thank you, Ms. Steel. 22 Can we still make this available on DVD, if 23 requested? 24 MS. GORE: Yes. 25 MR. LEONARD: To Ms. Mandel, to the extent they 26 don't have online access, if someone has a player, we 27 could send them the disk and have a little office party 28 and play the seminar, play the class, do it that way 17 1 also is another way to get the media out there. 2 MS. GORE: Yes. 3 MR. LEONARD: Any further questions? 4 Hearing none, are we all clear on coming back 5 in 30 days and tell us what's new? 6 MS. GORE: All right. 7 MR. LEONARD: Thank you. 8 Meeting adjourned. 9 ---o0o--- 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 18 1 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE. 2 3 State of California ) 4 ) ss 5 County of Sacramento ) 6 7 I, JULI PRICE JACKSON, Hearing Reporter for the 8 California State Board of Equalization certify that on 9 AUGUST 31, 2009 I recorded verbatim, in shorthand, to 10 the best of my ability, the proceedings in the 11 above-entitled hearing; that I transcribed the shorthand 12 writing into typewriting; and that the preceding pages 1 13 through 18 constitute a complete and accurate 14 transcription of the shorthand writing. 15 16 Dated: February 9, 2010 17 18 19 ____________________________ 20 JULI PRICE JACKSON 21 Hearing Reporter 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 19