BEFORE THE CALIFORNIA STATE BOARD OF EQUALIZATION 5901 Green Valley Circle, Room 207 Culver City, California REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT APRIIL 28, 2009 ITEM F2 PUBLIC HEARINGS PROPERTY TAXPAYERS' BILL OF RIGHTS HEARINGS Reported by: Beverly D. Toms No. CSR 1662 1 1 2 P R E S E N T 3 4 For the Board Betty Yee of Equalization: Chair 5 Judy Chu 6 Vice-Chair 7 Bill Leonard Member 8 Michelle Steel 9 Member 10 Marcy Jo Mandel Appearing for John 11 Chiang, State Controller (per Government Code 12 Section 7.9) 13 Diane Olson Chief, Board 14 Proceedings Division 15 Board of Equalization 16 Staff: Todd Gilman Taxpayers' Rights Advocate 17 18 Laureen Simpson 19 Mark Sutter Technical Adviser 20 ---oOo--- 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 2 1 INDEX OF SPEAKERS 2 3 Speaker: Page 4 CHERYL SMITH 5 5 FRANCISCO WILSON 15 6 ---oOo--- 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 3 1 Culver City,California 2 April 28, 2009 3 ---oOO--- 4 MR. GILMAN: Good afternoon, Madam Chair, 5 thank you, Members of the Board of Equalization. Todd 6 Gilman, Taxpayers' Rights Advocate. 7 This is the Property Taxpayers' Bill of Rights 8 hearing for Culver City, April 28, 2009. 9 Individuals have the opportunity to present 10 their ideas, concerns and recommendations regarding 11 legislation, the quality of agency services and other 12 issues relating to the Board's administration of its tax 13 program. 14 At the Property Taxpayers' Bill of Rights 15 hearings individuals can comment on State and 16 property -- State and County property tax programs as 17 well as comment on ways to resolve problems identified 18 in the Taxpayers' Rights 2007-2008 annual report for 19 property and business taxes. 20 Our first speaker is Ms. Cheryl Smith; 21 Ms. Smith, would you please come forward, please. 22 MS. SMITH: Good afternoon. 23 MS. YEE: Good afternoon. 24 ---oOo--- 25 26 27 28 4 1 CHERYLSMITH 2 MS. SMITH: My name is Cheryl Smith and I live 3 in Van Nuys. 4 There's a terrible unfairness in the property 5 tax reassessment exclusion law because it doesn't 6 protect siblings who own property together. 7 I owned my home with my brother. We shared all 8 living and expenses, taxes and upkeep. 9 My brother died in 2006, and after his name was 10 dropped from the title during the probate process I was 11 shocked to learn that my house was reassessed and the 12 property tax tripled. 13 I went to the Assessor's office thinking it 14 must be a mistake and I learned that there is a 15 reassessment exclusion law when property passes from 16 parent to child, grandparent to grandchild, spouse to 17 spouse and domestic partner to domestic partner, but 18 siblings who own a home together and live together are 19 not excluded from reassessment. 20 It states on the Assessor's website that these 21 exclusion laws were made to help keep property in the 22 family. Well, siblings are family. 23 I lived in my home 50 years. It's the house my 24 brother and I grew up in. We inherited it from our 25 mother and I planned to stay in it the rest of my life 26 but now I don't know if I'll be able to hang on to it. 27 This huge increase in my property tax comes at 28 a time in my life when I'm learning very -- earning very 5 1 little and it's difficult enough to make ends meet. 2 My monthly expenses doubled for me just by not 3 having my brother to share them with any longer. So 4 having my property tax triple is more than I can bear. 5 I have used up all of my savings, dipped into 6 my small retirement fund and gone into debt and sold my 7 grandmother's diamond ring to cover the $9,000 in 8 property tax that I've had to pay since my brother died. 9 I don't know what to do next but to try and 10 get the law changed. This has always been my home. 11 I've lived in it for fifty years and just because my 12 brother died I'm being taxed out of it. 13 This is not in the spirit of the law of trying 14 to keep property in the family. I really need help in 15 getting an exclusion written that will include siblings 16 as was done in recent years for domestic partners, and I 17 need to include me so that I can stay in my home. 18 Thank you. 19 MS. YEE: Thank you, Ms. Smith. 20 Mr. Gilman, have you had contact with the 21 Assessor's office on this one? 22 MR. GILMAN: Actually, with the Tax Collector's 23 office for Los Angeles County. 24 MS. YEE: Okay. 25 MR. GILMAN: And my technical adviser has been 26 in contact with them. And, unfortunately, there's no 27 exclusion or provision in the law that allows Ms. Smith 28 the opportunity to not have the reassessment currently 6 1 based on the way the property is held. Although my 2 technical adviser has talked to Ms. Smith and we 3 understand that there was some legislation that was 4 drafted, AB 103, I believe it was -- 5 MS. SMITH: Yes. 6 MR. GILMAN: -- Assemblyman DeLeon, is that 7 correct? 8 However, the legislation that was drafted 9 probably wouldn't help Ms. Smith. 10 MS. YEE: It's prospective. 11 MR. GILMAN: Well, that and the property that 12 she currently resides in was held by three individuals. 13 One brother passed away. There still is an existing 14 brother, and as I understand the way the legislation was 15 drafted it was only between siblings, not between three 16 individuals, not three siblings. 17 MS. YEE: I think it's between two co-owners 18 that -- 19 MR. GILMAN: Co-owners. 20 MS. YEE: Equal shares, right. 21 MR. GILMAN: Right. 22 MS. YEE: Let me ask you, the house has been in 23 your family -- it was your parents' house? 24 MS. SMITH: Yes, my parents bought it in the 25 mid-1950's. They were the original owners. And it's 26 the house we three children grew up in. 27 And when the parents died it went to the three 28 of us children. 7 1 MS. YEE: And how was the property held among 2 the three of you? 3 MS. SMITH: Tenants in common. 4 MS. YEE: Okay. 5 MS. MANDEL: When -- when was it transferred to 6 the three of you? 7 MS. SMITH: In 1991, I believe. 8 MS. MANDEL: So -- so your -- 9 MS. SMITH: That was when my mother died. 10 MS. MANDEL: Your parents had -- had -- you all 11 were not on title with the parents at all? 12 MS. SMITH: No, no, when my father died it 13 became completely my mother's. And she put it in a 14 living trust. And from the living trust it went to we 15 three children when she died. 16 MS. MANDEL: As tenants in common? 17 MS. SMITH: Yes. And the one brother and I 18 lived in the home together. We had always lived in the 19 home together. The third sibling moved away, is married 20 and lives out of state and has his own home out of 21 state. 22 MS. MANDEL: How -- how -- when the brother who 23 lived with you passed away, how -- how much of a 24 reassessment did the Assessor do? Did -- Todd, did he 25 do -- 26 MR. GILMAN: It's a one-third reassessment. 27 MS. MANDEL: He just did a one-third, okay. 28 MR. GILMAN: Right. 8 1 MS. MANDEL: Okay. 2 MS. SMITH: That was enough to get me. 3 MR. LEONARD: It sounded huge. 4 MS. MANDEL: Yeah, it's -- I thought maybe 5 it -- 6 MS. SMITH: It tripled. 7 MS. MANDEL: Tripled up. 8 MS. SMITH: It tripled. And if my remaining 9 brother passes before I do and that happens again, it 10 will be reassessed again. 11 And I felt as long as I'm still the principal 12 resident -- you know, it's been my principal residence 13 always, that it shouldn't go up for me as long as the 14 principal resident is still in the house. Even though I 15 have a brother out of state that owns half of it 16 technically, it's my house. I'm the one living in it, 17 you know. And always have lived in it. 18 MR. LEONARD: Madam Chair. 19 MS. YEE: Yes, Mr. Leonard. 20 MR. LEONARD: Well, clearly it will take 21 statute and we might want to look into helping 22 legislators like Mr. DeLeon and others that are look -- 23 or working on it. 24 My memory is, and we -- when we debated this, 25 who should be excluded and included in 1979, I -- we did 26 discuss kids owning the property together. The 27 assumption was, and your family sounds really 28 generous -- but the assumption was that the -- the 9 1 sibling residing in the home would buy out the other 2 brother's interest with cash, which amounts to a sale, 3 and that that would properly trigger reassessment 4 because money passed hands. 5 But as I read your letter it sounds like you 6 didn't pay them. 7 MS. SMITH: No. 8 MR. LEONARD: They -- they have generously 9 allowed you to live and occupy the property. 10 MS. SMITH: Right. 11 MR. LEONARD: They're on it. If you should die 12 before the last -- 13 MS. SMITH: Yes. 14 MR. LEONARD: -- then they get it and they're 15 the ones that ultimately benefit from the sale or the 16 use of the property. 17 MS. SMITH: Yes. 18 MR. CHIANG: That's -- that's a very different 19 kind of -- of inheritance arrangement that might be 20 so -- so narrow and rare you might be able to craft 21 legislation to say that where the successor siblings 22 co-own and -- and do not exchange their -- their shares 23 of the property for cash -- 24 MR. GILMAN: Right. 25 MR. LEONARD: -- for value -- 26 MR. GILMAN: Right. 27 MR. LEONARD: -- that that should be excluded 28 from assessment. Because we all thought it just -- you 10 1 know, my brother would not let me live in a house where 2 he's on the title without paying him. I mean, my family 3 is different from yours. And that -- that's -- that's a 4 sale. 5 But I guess I would have advised you just to 6 not change the deed, just to live with it. And until 7 you actually ended up selling the property to another 8 party and then -- and then do Powers of Attorney to sign 9 the deed out. 10 As I -- it strikes me like L. A. County was 11 also somewhat reluctant, although when they jumped on it 12 sounds like the assessment -- reassessment was big, but 13 it -- it just didn't fit the normal facts of the 14 situation. 15 MR. GILMAN: Right. I do know Ms. Smith has 16 been in contact with the author's office in terms of her 17 situation. And you indicated to me today that there has 18 been some activity recently on the legislation. I had 19 not read anything. 20 But I mean something this month, if I'm not -- 21 MS. YEE: It was -- 22 MR. LEONARD: I think you can narrow it from 23 all siblings to where there's no cash involved. That 24 would make it a very inexpensive piece of legislation. 25 MS. YEE: Let -- yeah, that's good. The -- the 26 bill is actually pending in the Assembly Rev. and Tax 27 Committee on the suspense file. 28 MR. GILMAN: Right. Right. 11 1 MS. YEE: So, there is time to actually look at 2 this issue. 3 And I think -- I mean, certainly the spirit of 4 the bill is to try to keep people in their homes. 5 MR. GILMAN: Right. 6 MS. YEE: So -- 7 MS. SMITH: But the way the bill is written 8 right now it mentions both siblings being principal -- 9 the principal residents for both siblings. 10 MR. GILMAN: Right. Right. 11 MS. SMITH: And in this case it's not because 12 my surviving brother is married, out of state and has 13 his own home. 14 MR. GILMAN: Right. 15 MS. YEE: Right. 16 MR. LEONARD: That's just so unique, it just -- 17 MS. SMITH: But as long as I'm staying in it, 18 you know, and it's always been my principal residence, 19 if I could get a break in the reassessment so that I 20 could afford to stay in it, is what I'm looking for. 21 MS. YEE: Okay. 22 MS. MANDEL: From -- with only one-third 23 reassessed and a 1991 -- oh, maybe it's an older base, I 24 don't know. Does a Prop. 8 -- 25 MR. LEONARD: It's a '75. 26 MS. MANDEL: Does a Prop. 8 help at all these 27 days? 28 MS. SMITH: It was under Prop. 8 all this time. 12 1 And it supposedly still is, you know. The two-thirds -- 2 the -- we're still -- yeah, are still under and just the 3 one-third that was reassessed now is -- 4 MS. MANDEL: Okay. 5 MS. SMITH: -- was reassessed. But it still 6 made a difference because I'm earning very little these 7 days and I don't have the extra money to come up with 8 for the property tax every year without selling off 9 possessions. And I'm running out of things to sell. 10 MS. YEE: Okay. Mr. Gilman. 11 MR. GILMAN: This is Mark Sutter, my technical 12 adviser on the property tax side. 13 And, Mark, why don't you go ahead and make a 14 couple of comments in terms of the Prop. 8 and some of 15 the research that you've done in terms of Ms. Smith's 16 issue -- 17 MR. SUTTER: Marcy Jo, you're -- excuse me, 18 you're absolutely -- 19 MS. YEE: Please identify yourself. 20 MR. SUTTER: Oh, sure. Mark Sutter, and I'm a 21 Technical Adviser with the Property Tax -- or Taxpayer 22 Rights Advocate's office. 23 The Prop. 8 that's on the property is correct. 24 And it does help, but it's -- it's -- 25 MS. MANDEL: I was looking for something. 26 MR. SUTTER: I know, yeah. 27 MR. GILMAN: Right. 28 MS. MANDEL: She's already done everything it 13 1 sounds. 2 MR. SUTTER: And we checked the homeowner's 3 exemption, which is not a whole lot, and it's correct. 4 So, -- and we have tried to get in touch -- or have her 5 get in touch with Mr. DeLeon's office -- or De Leon's 6 office. And if he -- she can get through to him she can 7 maybe help craft some new legislation into that existing 8 bill. 9 That's the angle we've been kind of pushing at 10 this point. 11 MS. YEE: Okay. We can certainly try to lend a 12 hand. We've -- my office has been working with that -- 13 the author's office on that bill. So -- 14 MR. GILMAN: Great. 15 MS. YEE: -- let us take a look at it. 16 Okay. 17 MS. SMITH: Thank you so much. 18 MS. YEE: Thank you very much, Ms. Smith. 19 MR. GILMAN: Thank you. 20 ---oOo--- 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 14 1 FRANCISCOWILSON 2 MR. GILMAN: We have one more speaker for the 3 Property Taxpayers' Bill of Rights hearing. Mr. 4 Francisco Wilson. 5 Mr. Wilson, if you're here, would you please 6 come forward, please. 7 MR. WILSON: Good afternoon, Board. 8 MS. YEE: Good afternoon. 9 MR. WILSON: Shall I begin? 10 MS. YEE: Please. 11 MR. WILSON: My issue is that several months 12 ago I went to the Los Angeles County Tax Collector's 13 office to have a mobile/manufactured home that I've been 14 owning for the past 30 years transferred over to a 15 sibling of mine. 16 I was informed at that time that I had owed 17 back taxes from the year 1990. I informed them that I 18 was not aware of any taxes that I owed from 1990 and 19 that I had been paying my taxes prior to 1990 and since 20 1990 to date without ever being in delinquency or being 21 late with the bill. 22 They asked me to produce a receipt. I told 23 them that I did not have a receipt from 18 years ago. 24 I asked them to show me a notification that 25 they sent me letting me know that I had not paid my tax 26 bill for that year. And they said that they did not 27 have a copy of a notification on how -- on hard copy or 28 on microfiche. 15 1 So, the issue is that their -- according to 2 their records there's an outstanding tax bill from 1990 3 that I was never notified about, and it was never placed 4 on the property -- the subsequent property tax bill 5 as default or delinquent, as they do for residential 6 property tax bills. 7 My issue is whether or not this is 8 constitutional or whether or not it's legal, because 9 from my recollection I paid that property tax bill in 10 1990, and I paid it prior to that and since then without 11 ever being delinquent. And I'm repeating myself. 12 And so, they will not release the property or 13 allow me to transfer title over unless I pay that year's 14 tax bill and all the fees that have accrued since then. 15 Also, several years ago I went down to the 16 Assessor's office and had the mobile home reassessed for 17 its property value because manufactured homes do not 18 increase in value, they decrease in value over years. 19 Like regular property taxes do. 20 And the Assessor's office decreased it by about 21 an amount of $150 a year. And at that time I was not 22 informed that there was an outstanding tax bill that I 23 owed. 24 Like I said, I -- my recollection is that I 25 paid the bill, but I can't find a tax -- I mean, I can't 26 find a receipt from 18 years ago. I tend to believe 27 that the person inside of the taxpayer's office took my 28 money and put it in their own pocket. 16 1 And also as part of my issue, I wanted to have 2 the Tax Collector's office investigated for malfeasance, 3 property tax theft by any employees in their employment 4 from 1985 to date, and also investigate it to see if any 5 other taxpayer has had a similar complaint to this 6 office or to any other investigative body about 7 malfeasance or theft or this type of issue, inside of 8 the Los Angeles County Tax Collector's office. 9 So, in conclusion I'm here seeking remedy and 10 assistance from the Board to help me with this issue 11 because at this point I'm being held at gunpoint to pay 12 them this money that I paid them back in 1990. 13 MS. YEE: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Wilson. 14 Let me ask you, your address of record to where 15 bills and notices have been sent hasn't changed over the 16 years? 17 MR. WILSON: It has changed. 18 MS. YEE: It has changed? 19 MR. WILSON: Yes. It was Redwood in Hesperia. 20 I don't have that the correct address at this time. And 21 for the past 16 -- 17 years has been 2144, in Compton. 22 MS. YEE: Okay. 23 But the County has your -- your -- has been -- 24 MR. WILSON: Yes. 25 MS. YEE: -- has your correct address of 26 record? 27 MR. WILSON: Yes. 28 MS. YEE: Okay. And what was your method of 17 1 payment on your tax bills? 2 MR. WILSON: I have paid my tax bills by cash 3 in the property tax line; by Money Order and by check, 4 and more recently by check. But back at that time it 5 was cash. 6 MS. YEE: Okay. Mr. Gilman, or Mr. Sutter, any 7 information? 8 MR. GILMAN: Madam Chair, Mr. Sutter has been 9 in contact with the L.A. County Tax Collector's office. 10 And while I understand Mr. Wilson's frustration, there's 11 currently no way at this point -- Mr. Wilson can abate 12 the tax amount or the penalty amount. 13 One of the things that we thought going forward 14 at least that would be a good idea was for at least -- 15 if a taxpayer has a liability like this and -- and they 16 don't claim that they have any information or have been 17 contacted, that possibly if a note -- a note or some 18 kind of a comment could be placed on the property tax 19 bill for -- for the past amounts due that would alert 20 the taxpayer -- whatever it may be, in bold print, you 21 know, outstanding amount, lien filed -- to bring it to 22 the taxpayer's attention. 23 It just seems excessive 18 years later. 24 MS. MANDEL: Didn't -- I thought that something 25 happened in L.A. County after a gentleman lost his 26 condo. I thought there was something -- 27 MR. GILMAN: I'm familiar with that case, too. 28 MS. MANDEL: But, I mean, wasn't there 18 1 something going to be on the tax bills after that? I 2 thought there was going to be something. 3 MR. SUTTER: I believe this is an unsecured tax 4 bill versus secured. 5 MS. MANDEL: Oh. 6 MR. SUTTER: But I don't know if that's the 7 main reason, but I suspect that's -- 8 MR. LEONARD: Should have done it to both. 9 MS. YEE: Right. 10 MR. SUTTER: Right. You'd think that they 11 would have. 12 MS. MANDEL: And that's why even though it's 18 13 years he wouldn't have lost the -- 14 MR. GILMAN: Right. 15 MS. MANDEL: -- property because it's on the 16 unsecured roll. 17 MR. GILMAN: Right. Right. 18 MR. SUTTER: That's correct. 19 MS. YEE: Okay. 20 MR. LEONARD: Question. 21 MS. YEE: Mr. Leonard. 22 MR. LEONARD: Is there a lien on the property? 23 MR. SUTTER: Yes. 24 MR. GILMAN: Yes. 25 MR. LEONARD: Have they taken collection action 26 against you? 27 MR. WILSON: No, they have not. 28 MR. LEONARD: How much are we talking about 19 1 now? 2 MR. GILMAN: A little over $2000. 3 MR. LEONARD: The original tax was -- 4 MR. GILMAN: Correct. 5 MR. LEONARD: Excuse me. 6 MR. WILSON: Delinquent tax was originally 490, 7 I believe and the fees are over 1400. 8 So it was -- 9 MR. LEONARD: So, 490 in original tax, 1400 10 plus since then, and -- 11 MR. WILSON: Yeah, we're talking about about -- 12 about 2100. 13 MR. GILMAN: Right. 14 MR. LEONARD: Have we inquired, does L.A. 15 County have a settlement or any kind of program like we 16 do? 17 MR. SUTTER: They have basically drawn a pretty 18 straight line and said there's no alternatives other 19 than to pay this particular bill. 20 MR. LEONARD: You contacted your County 21 Supervisor? 22 MR. WILSON: Yes, I have. On several 23 occasions. 24 MS. YEE: No payment over time. 25 MR. WILSON: They have not -- they've dropped 26 the ball with this a couple of times and just have -- 27 recently they've made some inquiries and are going to 28 get back with me, about this. 20 1 MR. SUTTER: I checked to make sure that they 2 sent it to the correct address. They did send it to the 3 correct address. They sent a followup letter 4 approximately May of '91, and then in August of '92, I 5 believe it was, they sent the Certificate of Lien or a 6 copy of that and all to the same Hesperia address. 7 Nothing -- he's not -- says he's not received 8 anything although he gets his annual tax bills I believe 9 at that same address for at least some time after 10 that. 11 MS. MANDEL: And it's -- it's unsecured so it's 12 an unsecured lien against him personally. 13 MR. SUTTER: I believe that is correct. 14 MS. MANDEL: Sorry to -- 15 MR. SUTTER: They've taken no action since -- 16 1992. 17 MS. MANDEL: But there's a -- for whatever else 18 he might want to do in his life financially he has -- 19 there's a -- a lien if someone were to do a search 20 against him personally. 21 MR. SUTTER: And I asked them if they knew 22 where he lived, if they -- he's been paying his bills 23 from 1990 forward and prior to that, and they said that 24 they don't do any type of collection once they filed the 25 Certificate of Lien. They just let it ride. 26 MR. WILSON: They -- they have a general letter 27 that they send out and they said that they sent it out. 28 But of course I never received it. 21 1 And I've never seen a copy from their office of 2 a letter dating back then that they sent me. What they 3 are showing Mr. Sutter, from my understanding -- I 4 haven't seen what he's received -- but it's just a copy 5 of the tax roll or some thing that they generate saying 6 that I did not pay it at that time. But not a copy of 7 an original letter that they sent me notifying me of 8 this issue. 9 To add, there's also a provision in the Tax 10 Collector's code or whatever it is, and I don't have 11 that information on hand at the moment, that allows for 12 the Tax Collector to submit to the Board of Supervisors 13 whereas they can dismiss a property tax bill for good 14 cause. 15 But apparently the Tax Collector doesn't -- 16 does not think that this is good cause. 17 So, I mean there's other provisions inside the 18 property tax laws for notifying residential property 19 taxpayers that their property is in default. There's 20 regulations and codes for a procedure that they supposed 21 to follow. And one is a posting of letters and 22 notification and then a printing of default or 23 delinquency on every property tax bill after the 24 property goes into default. 25 But what I was informed by the Property Tax 26 Collector's office is that they're not required to do 27 that for mobile/manufactured homes. 28 So, we're not treated like vehicle 22 1 registration, and we're not treated like regular 2 property tax owners. And somebody needs to decide who 3 we're going to be treated like, because right now is -- 4 it appears to us that we're being treated unfairly. 5 MS. YEE: Okay. All right, thank you, 6 Mr. Wilson. I think that -- the information that you 7 have, Mr. Sutter, from the County as relates to 8 Mr. Wilson's matter, are you in possession of all of 9 your bills and notices and letters that have been 10 issued? 11 MR. WILSON: I couldn't -- I'm not sure as far 12 back as I can go, but -- 13 MS. YEE: Well, I think you should request that 14 information from the County so that you can pursue 15 whatever action either with your representative on the 16 Board of Supervisors, but have your records together in 17 terms of all the -- your past due liabilities. 18 MR. SUTTER: What the County told me is that 19 they don't keep copies, obviously, of notices that they 20 sent out. They only show in their computer system that 21 a bill was mailed out or that a notice was mailed out, 22 and when it was mailed and where it was mailed. 23 MS. YEE: At least he'll have that. 24 MR. SUTTER: Right. 25 MR. WILSON: Okay. Well, also I'm seeking 26 assistance to see if you can find out if there's been 27 any other claims of this nature -- 28 MS. YEE: Well, we -- 23 1 MR. WILSON: -- inside of the Tax Collector's 2 office. 3 MS. YEE: We -- yeah, we will make inquiry. We 4 will make inquiry. We will do that. 5 MR. WILSON: And if anybody's been fired for 6 property theft or monetary theft inside of the office. 7 MS. YEE: No, you've raised some serious 8 points and we will be following up with Los Angeles 9 County -- 10 MR. WILSON: Okay. 11 MS. YEE: -- about those points. Okay. 12 Great. Thank you very much. 13 MR. WILSON: Thank you. 14 MR. GILMAN: Thank you. 15 That was the only two scheduled speakers that 16 we had. If there is anybody that would like to come 17 forward and comment during the Business Tax -- pardon 18 me, Property Taxpayers' Bill of Rights hearing, if you 19 would like to come forward, please come forward now. 20 MS. YEE: Okay. Any other speakers on the 21 Property Taxpayers' -- okay. 22 MR. GILMAN: Okay. Thank you. That concludes 23 the Taxpayers' Bill of Rights hearings for Culver City, 24 April 28, 2009. 25 Thank you. 26 MS. YEE: Thank you very much, Mr. Gilman. 27 ---oOo--- 28 24 1 REPORTER'SCERTIFICATE 2 3 State of California ) 4 ) ss 5 County of Sacramento ) 6 7 I, BEVERLY D. TOMS, Hearing Reporter for the 8 California State Board of Equalization certify that on 9 April 28, 2009 I recorded verbatim, in shorthand, to the 10 best of my ability, the proceedings in the 11 above-entitled hearing; that I transcribed the shorthand 12 writing into typewriting; and that the preceding 24 13 pages constitute a complete and accurate transcription 14 of the shorthand writing. 15 16 Dated: May 26, 2009. 17 18 19 ____________________________ 20 BEVERLY D. TOMS 21 Hearing Reporter 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 25